ShadowOfTheHat
Regular Member
imported post
I started to post this as a Reply to this thread in the "Tactics & Personal Defense" section of 1911forum.com, asking them the question, "Why are y'all so concerned about being concealed?"
Then I decided I didn't want to hijack their discussion and I posted it the "Legal and Political" section of the 1911forum. Hopefully it generates some good conversation, but here's the copy below if you're interested . . .
Let me first say this: Outside of the Corps (20+ years ago), I have never carried as a citizen, though I plan to as soon as I feel confident in my training to do so, which I am working on now. Also, I do plan to get my CCW, though at this point it's more a matter of convenience than a desire to actually conceal. That being said, I hope you can solidify my armchair logic , or change my mind here . . . so, "Why are y'all so concerned about being concealed?"
Aside from any potential tactical advantage of surprise or avoiding the dreaded gun grab, IMHO I feel concealed carry does more overall harm than good when looking at the bigger picture.
I say this for several reasons:
1) As Americans, we should be proud of our RIGHT to legally and responsibly carry. Most citizens around the world can't carry at all, and if we don't turn the tide against those Americans who find open carry to be "socially unacceptable" or "discomforting," we too soon shall join the rest of the world and you won't have to worry about concealing it. To me, concealing equates to slinking around almost shamefully, and amounts to no more than allowing the government and political correctness to subdue you to into being embarrassed that you carry. We are on the verge of no carry at all, and once they turn the corner on that, there's no going back.
2) Over 10,000 people in my county alone applied for purchase and/or ccw permits last year. I would bet for most of them it's a knee-jerk reaction to our local crime scene, as well as it being their first time owning or handling a firearm. If for no other reason than I don't want a single inexperienced person who happens to have a "paper CCW" opening fire while I'm in range, these people need every opportunity we can give them to learn and discuss the seriousness of their undertaking. By openly carrying in public, we show them it's not shameful or sneaky to be armed, and for those who are interested, we get to discuss guns (yeah!) and educate them about ownership. Every wonder why people who conceal feel compelled to tell someone they see openly carrying that they too are carrying? It's our duty to inform and educate others about why we do, and how they too can learn to defend themselves.
3) From the crime reports we hear about daily in our local news, it's apparent that the thugs we have here living here have zero regard for human life. They'd just as soon kill you for fun as they would take your wallet. They're also not too bright to begin with. That being said, if they walk into a store and see five people and no guns, either they figure, "No one's armed" or "Maybe 2 out of 5 are armed" and they act, figuring they'll take their chances. In most cases, they're right - either the shoppers are not armed, or if they are the concealed carriers are sure keeping their guns hidden since all we hear around here is how the BG's get away all the time. Conversely, if the BG walks into to a store and sees three armed people, he's likely to choose easier game. If he does engage, then he'd forced to choose a first target. If he's successful with his first choice, the other should be able to take him out, or they shouldn't be carrying. In fact, if all three are true shepherds, then they should see what's about to happen before the BG makes his move.
4) Lastly, and I have no proof to back this up (except that I see and read that "most" people who carry have never been in a gunfight on the street), I have to conclude that no matter how you carry, the odds of being killed are very slim. If this is true, and we then assume you open carry, the odds of you getting killed because you didn't have the element of surprise or because someone took your gun away from you and used it on you, though perhaps slightly higher than if you had concealed, would still be extremely low. Therefore, we can conclude that your morning commute is probably more dangerous than open carrying, and that as a lawfully armed citizen you could take that risk and live your whole life doing a ton of good for others (see points # 1 and 2).
=========
Okay, so let the games begin. Slam me up one side and down the other. I know I'm a newbie, and still wet behind the ears, and all that. But, I'm here to learn, so learn me oh wise ones!
Dave
I started to post this as a Reply to this thread in the "Tactics & Personal Defense" section of 1911forum.com, asking them the question, "Why are y'all so concerned about being concealed?"
Then I decided I didn't want to hijack their discussion and I posted it the "Legal and Political" section of the 1911forum. Hopefully it generates some good conversation, but here's the copy below if you're interested . . .
Let me first say this: Outside of the Corps (20+ years ago), I have never carried as a citizen, though I plan to as soon as I feel confident in my training to do so, which I am working on now. Also, I do plan to get my CCW, though at this point it's more a matter of convenience than a desire to actually conceal. That being said, I hope you can solidify my armchair logic , or change my mind here . . . so, "Why are y'all so concerned about being concealed?"
Aside from any potential tactical advantage of surprise or avoiding the dreaded gun grab, IMHO I feel concealed carry does more overall harm than good when looking at the bigger picture.
I say this for several reasons:
1) As Americans, we should be proud of our RIGHT to legally and responsibly carry. Most citizens around the world can't carry at all, and if we don't turn the tide against those Americans who find open carry to be "socially unacceptable" or "discomforting," we too soon shall join the rest of the world and you won't have to worry about concealing it. To me, concealing equates to slinking around almost shamefully, and amounts to no more than allowing the government and political correctness to subdue you to into being embarrassed that you carry. We are on the verge of no carry at all, and once they turn the corner on that, there's no going back.
2) Over 10,000 people in my county alone applied for purchase and/or ccw permits last year. I would bet for most of them it's a knee-jerk reaction to our local crime scene, as well as it being their first time owning or handling a firearm. If for no other reason than I don't want a single inexperienced person who happens to have a "paper CCW" opening fire while I'm in range, these people need every opportunity we can give them to learn and discuss the seriousness of their undertaking. By openly carrying in public, we show them it's not shameful or sneaky to be armed, and for those who are interested, we get to discuss guns (yeah!) and educate them about ownership. Every wonder why people who conceal feel compelled to tell someone they see openly carrying that they too are carrying? It's our duty to inform and educate others about why we do, and how they too can learn to defend themselves.
3) From the crime reports we hear about daily in our local news, it's apparent that the thugs we have here living here have zero regard for human life. They'd just as soon kill you for fun as they would take your wallet. They're also not too bright to begin with. That being said, if they walk into a store and see five people and no guns, either they figure, "No one's armed" or "Maybe 2 out of 5 are armed" and they act, figuring they'll take their chances. In most cases, they're right - either the shoppers are not armed, or if they are the concealed carriers are sure keeping their guns hidden since all we hear around here is how the BG's get away all the time. Conversely, if the BG walks into to a store and sees three armed people, he's likely to choose easier game. If he does engage, then he'd forced to choose a first target. If he's successful with his first choice, the other should be able to take him out, or they shouldn't be carrying. In fact, if all three are true shepherds, then they should see what's about to happen before the BG makes his move.
4) Lastly, and I have no proof to back this up (except that I see and read that "most" people who carry have never been in a gunfight on the street), I have to conclude that no matter how you carry, the odds of being killed are very slim. If this is true, and we then assume you open carry, the odds of you getting killed because you didn't have the element of surprise or because someone took your gun away from you and used it on you, though perhaps slightly higher than if you had concealed, would still be extremely low. Therefore, we can conclude that your morning commute is probably more dangerous than open carrying, and that as a lawfully armed citizen you could take that risk and live your whole life doing a ton of good for others (see points # 1 and 2).
=========
Okay, so let the games begin. Slam me up one side and down the other. I know I'm a newbie, and still wet behind the ears, and all that. But, I'm here to learn, so learn me oh wise ones!
Dave
