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Thread: Am I technically CC'ing?

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    Regular Member BUBB4H's Avatar
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    I want to caveat this by saying I do have a CCW. This is primarily for discussion and maybe for those who do not.

    I get my haircut at the same place every few weeks. I'm in church clothes, usually straight from work, so I'm OC'ing. The lady throws the big bib over me. Voila. It's concealed. Am I now in the realm of CC?

    I ask this because an older gentleman came in and sat down in the barber chair next to me and started chatting. When the lady was done with my hair she flipped the sheet off and I stood up and got a :what:from the old man. Got me to thinking...

    Also. I go to Gold's Gym. Walk in OC'ing, change, lock it up in my locker. Come back, get my towel, soap, etc. lock it back up.Go shower, come back, change. Kimber's in my gym bag the whole time until I walk out OC'ing. CCW required?

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    Regular Member USMC91E6's Avatar
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    Welcome to the Fourm. It should not matter because your on private property. Please correct me if I'm wrong

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    I would say yes to both scenarios.
    Welcome to the Fourm. It should not matter because your on private property. Please correct me if I'm wrong
    In VA, you do not need a CHP to conceal a firearm if you are on YOUR OWN property. If you own the GYM and the Barbershop, then you're good to go even without a CHP.

    On a side note, I don't think I'd be comfortable leaving my firearm in a gym locker. I understand you lock it up, but I still wouldn't leave it. I'd invest in a safe that you can bolt to your car and secure it that way. I guess that would leave you "defenseless" walking to/from your car though...

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    If it is hidden from common observation or it's 'true nature disguised', it is concealed. If you ever want to know if it is considered concealed just ask yourself, Is it hidden from common observation or is it's true nature disguised?

    +1 on not locking in you gym locker. If you are OC'ing into the gym people KNOW you are locking a gun in your locker.

    Welcome to the forum! We always can use more Marines.:what:
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    Regular Member Prophet's Avatar
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    VAopencarry wrote:
    If it is hidden from common observation or it's 'true nature disguised', it is concealed.
    I'm curious though, if he's not the one doing the concealing is that really on him? I reference the barbershop. To wit, if i'm oc'ing with a shoulder holster and my girlfriend gives me a hug and her arm goes over my pistol am I now carrying concealed? Or even more to the point with the barbershop, if I am sitting down in a chair with armrests and my pistol is clearly visable when I am standing by is hidden from common observation while I'm seated does that require me to get a permit?

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    Prophet wrote:
    VAopencarry wrote:
    If it is hidden from common observation or it's 'true nature disguised', it is concealed.
    I'm curious though, if he's not the one doing the concealing is that really on him? I reference the barbershop. To wit, if i'm oc'ing with a shoulder holster and my girlfriend gives me a hug and her arm goes over my pistol am I now carrying concealed? Or even more to the point with the barbershop, if I am sitting down in a chair with armrests and my pistol is clearly visable when I am standing by is hidden from common observation while I'm seated does that require me to get a permit?
    If I walk behind a building and nobody can see my firearm is it concealed?

    If someone walks between me and a cop while I am carrying a gun, and he can't see it, is it concealed.

    If there is a total eclipse of the sun, and you can't see my gun, is it concealed?

    Come on people, there needs to be a little bit of common sensehere.

    If you girlfriend hugs you and your gun is momentarily out of line of sight, it is not concealed. If you are sitting in a chair that hides your gun from view only fromcertain angles, it is not concealed.

    If you put on a long overcoat, and it covers your gun, it is concealed.



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    In Nevada, what you mention would be 100% illegal. Here, you can be OCing, sit down in a resturaunt and have the tablecloth cover your gun and boom, its concealed and illegal. Same goes with a barbershop, as you mention, as well as the IWB, butt showing carry typically known as the 'Virginia tuck'.

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    Regular Member BUBB4H's Avatar
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    I KNEW someone would say something about me locking it my locker.

    Trust me gents, I've gone over it in my head. I park in what's basically an alley behind the main building. Not leaving it in my car.

    The locker room is highly trafficked and anyone attempting to cut the commercial grade lock off my locker would create quite the spectacle. I have considered toting it around in my little gym bag (man purse) with all of my other accoutrements, gloves, weight belt, etc.

    Then that way I'd have it nearby as well.

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    Uness you have a clear gym bag, you would need a CHP for that.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    CRF250rider1000 wrote:
    Uness you have a clear gym bag, you would need a CHP for that.
    Which he says he has, in the very first sentence of the thread....

    Read first, post second...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member BUBB4H's Avatar
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    Semper Fi!

    Thanks for the welcome; I've been posting for a couple months now but changed my name. Kept my avatar the same though.



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    I think VAopencarry hit the mark.

    If it is not open to common observation or its true nature is disguised, it is concealed. 18.2-308.

    Common-sense only tangentially enters into it.

    First and foremost, what might a police officer decide when a nervous-nelly citizen calls 911, or what if a cop is already in the shop waiting his turn for a haircut. Would youwanta judge to have a crack at it?
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

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    Regular Member BUBB4H's Avatar
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    I concur.

    I think it'sjust one more responsibility an armed citizen must undertake and another good reason to have a CCW. Even if you OC 100%, do you really want to be tied up in a legal wrangle over John Law's interpretation?

    Well....some people would say yes, but I just like the convenience of being able to throw a jacket on (or a barbershop sheet) without breaking the law.



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    I had been thinking about starting a thread to ask the exact same question. The only difference is that I don't have a CHP, so so far I have always left my gun in the truck, because I believe that it would most-likely be considered concealing without a permit if I let them put the cover over me.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Hhhmm. I'm considering the question. I'll ask another question or two to get your guys' take to help me think through this.

    What if you are camping and legally OC in a state park. You lay down by the fire and doze off and your g/f throws a blanket over you. Are you now CC?

    Other side of the coin:

    In my city of residence, OC is illegal by ordinance (no preemption - yet). Incidental exposure, reaching for your wallet, wind blows your coat, etc. is not a violation. So, I go to the barber shop. As I prepare to sit in the barber chair I take off my jacket which is my means of CC, place it on a nearby chair, sit, get covered by the smock. After I'm done, the barber pulls off the smock and I immediately walk to my jacket and put it on again covering the pistol. Was I technically OCing?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member CRF250rider1000's Avatar
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    I see nowhere where it specifically says that he has a clear gym bag and I read the whole thing before I posted fyi. He does have a CHP and I missed that somehow, but I was simply pointing out that to "open carry" it would need to be a clear gym bag so everyone could see it. It would be concealed carry if the gun wasn't visible through the bag lining.


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    This is exactly why I submitted for my concealed permit last week... just to cover those occasions where there could be a perception I was carrying concealed... that and I'm tired of taking my weapon out of the holster when I'm driving.

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    Regular Member BUBB4H's Avatar
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    What it all comes down to is what type of LEO you'll encounter. Which is a totally different topic...

    But I think the "blanket theory" while camping will probably fall under "unintentional". I mean geez, you were asleep.

    If I didn't have my CCW I think I would leave it in the glove box while getting a haircut or going to the gym. Definitely.

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    OK. I have one...If I'm open carrying, with my strong side to a car door, while riding in a vehicle. Is that considered concealed? Does it have to be on the seat? Technically it's not hidden from common view however "common view" of my person is severely limited. Thoughts?

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    BUBB4H wrote:
    I get my haircut at the same place every few weeks. I'm in church clothes, usually straight from work, so I'm OC'ing. The lady throws the big bib over me. Voila. It's concealed. Am I now in the realm of CC?
    and

    VARuger wrote:
    OK. I have one...If I'm open carrying, with my strong side to a car door, while riding in a vehicle. Is that considered concealed? Does it have to be on the seat? Technically it's not hidden from common view however "common view" of my person is severely limited. Thoughts?
    Start here: http://www.virginia1774.org/Page1.html#ConcealedWeaponand read all the way through.

    Case law is what you want to know, as it is how the courts have interpreted the Code of Virginia. IANAL and to my knowledge have never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, but I know how to read case law. Based on what the courts in Virginia have ruled, the answer to the OP's question and the scenario posed by VAruger is a resounding "Yes, unless we want to decide otherwise." That also goes for Decoligny's
    Come on people, there needs to be a little bit of common sensehere.

    If you girlfriend hugs you and your gun is momentarily out of line of sight, it is not concealed. If you are sitting in a chair that hides your gun from view only fromcertain angles, it is not concealed
    Your girlfriend is no different in the eyes of the law than a dufflebag. Either one can get you convicted of a felony. :what:

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    Your girlfriend is no different in the eyes of the law than a dufflebag. Either one can get you convicted of a felony. :what:

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Carrying a concealed handgun w/o a permit is only a class 1 misdemeanor for the first offense...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    Your girlfriend is no different in the eyes of the law than a dufflebag. Either one can get you convicted of a felony. :what:

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    Carrying a concealed handgun w/o a permit is only a class 1 misdemeanor for the first offense...
    Do you really think his girlfriend will give up snuggling up to him?

    stay safe.

    skidmark

    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
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