Flap holsters in New Mexico: Is the gun considered concealed or not?

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fighting_for_freedom,

Thank you for the suggestions.

I already have a small Bulldog holster (size is not marked on it) I got almost 2 years ago for my Beretta 3032. It also fits my Beretta 21A, but I usually carry the 21A in a (size 10) Uncle Mike's "Sidekick" ankle holster (concealed of course). Tokarevs are a "very thin 1911" if you will, so they conceal well if carried in that manner vs. openly.

I guess I could get a larger Bulldog holster for my Tokarev (or my Zastava M88 9mm...a currently-produced "compact Tokarev clone") but as I said earlier, I would prefer to use the military flap holster...I like milsurp guns and the holsters thatserved with them.

-- John D.

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i always wondered if a LEO might try to claim my holstered P-38 was concealed, because it is so well enclosed?

so i did some major cutting away of the excess and changing the flap strap to a thumb break retainer.

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That's a good idea if you have a flap holster that isn't an original-issue with some history to it (i.e., not a newly-made reproduction)...I wouldn't want to cut one ofTokarev holstersup. AndI like the protection a flap holster affords a gun so that's another reason for me not to do it.

Besides, I'm sure if I wore my flap-holster EMPTY around Texas here, I AM SURE some cop would stop me if he/she saw it, or some citizen would make a "man with a gun" call. So I can't believe even if you wear a holster that covers the gun 90-100%, it is considered "concealed." If that were true, no cop would ever see my flap holster being worn openly or even if they did, think anything "gun" about it. ;-)

BTW, if you get a black permanent marker you can touchup those cut edges tomatch (kind of) the holster's color. And if you rounded off that sharp corner, it'd look like the holster might have come that way originally.

-- John D.

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of coarse its a new mfg. holster, i wouldnt cut up a relic! it was only 10 bucks! i trimmed up that corner over the extra mag and the hammer, and the magic marker; a fine idea!

in texas; im sure youwd get a talkin to from LEO if your flap was in place! you cant OC there. i hope thats gets fixed, and you get your 2 A rights back!

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Actually... this whole 'flapped holster' deal seems to be one of the bones that any cop with an 'anti' agenda' can pick with impunity. For this reason I think it reasonable and prudent to obtain a CCW/CWP if only to rub their nose in it when so equipped. I've never had problem with it in Arizona... butI think most AZ LEO's are of the 'culture', which may not be the case elsewhere. New Mexico seems to attract those of a 'liberal/progresive' bent... particularly in the north. 'Might be the same north of here... which is why I rarely go upthere.

Laws are written by weenies 'n dorks.... I mean... look at the people who inhabit your legislatures. Most of 'em couldn't tell ya which end of the horse the oats go in. Then they proceed to write 'laws' concerning objects of which they know nothing about. Does anyone even think for a nano-second that any of these 'legislators' ever considered a flapped holster... or even seen one when they wrote these silly 'rules'?

This isn't germain to NM alone... people have been jackedfor carrying 'concealed' with these types of holsters all over. That being the case... those states which do not allow OC should consider a flapped holster concealed (using case law precident)but they don't. It's only convienient to their 'agenda' in making that determination. As usual... there are those who want it 'both ways'. All the more reason to fight against these endless government contrivances which clearly infringe upon the right to keep and bear arms at the pleasure of the bearer (as intended by the founders).The 2A is OC!

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I cannot remember what law it is but in Ohio they use the phrase "Unknown of its presence" the deifinition of concealed no Leo can legitimately say that your concealed if he/she knows of its presence.Not to say you cannot be prosecuted for it but all law no matter where you go is pretty much the same. Hidden is Hidding and if you know of its presence then its real.
Hey Cloud Croft are you from that city in NM,my Family has our Reunion there every 4 years or something like that its been years since I have been up there.
How is it?

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Bustelo5%,

No, I am not from there, butI lived in El Paso for a long time and have visited Cloudcroft occasionally since 1964...it's a nice "village" and would be a great place to retire as the cost of living there is surprisingly low. Same for Ruidoso.

I likeCloudcroft's northern NM Mexico "counterparts" (Los Alamos, White Rock) too,but they are much more expensive.

-- John D.

P.S. After I leave here (Galveston, TX), NM is one of the places I an considering living next...I still haven't found a permanent "home."

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Sonora Rebel,

I don't see "working within the system" getting any of that done, but do believe that only more "extreme" measures will solve those problems quite easily and VERY quickly. Yes, violence really DOES solve problems, and most often permanently.

But of course, that probably will never happen...

So I have decided to secede from the Union...if only in my own mind. ;-)

-- John D.

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2, 4, 5 A defender,

If you want to color the leather showing now that you cut the flap off, try this stuff (find it at supermarkets and such):

http://www.kiwishoeproducts.com/Kiwi_Leather_Dye_Black_p/107.htm

-- John D.

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I would love to Move to Cloud Croft its an amazing place. Are there places to go hunting and or out door ranges to go target practice? I dont think I could move there as a young man but I think retiring there would be awesome.
Did NM sign a petition to succeed from the union of states?

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Sorry...I can't answer your questionsbecause I don't know. Have been out of touch with NM since I moved down here.

Will be going to visit my sister (during the Christmas holidays) in Rio Rancho (and friendsin El Paso) and will see if any OC Forum members [Albuquerque] get an "outing" together for December...I would like to join them.

But northern NM isquite different from southern NM.

Regardless, they're STILL NM so you CAN OC...which I look forward to.

-- John D.

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I find it really bizarre that in some instances LEO’s can say one guy carrying CC is not properly concealing his gun because it “printed” through his shirt while another LEO can say that another guy carrying OC does not have his in the open because it is in a holster. There shouldn’t be such a wide, ambiguous line dividing CC from OC – it should be either one or the other.

As for New Mexico, I know of a doctor there who carries a letter he got from the state attorney general which states that the Safepacker is considered a holster approved for open carry. For those who have not heard of the Safepacker it is a rectangular, nylon pouch made to strap onto a belt or strap. It holds a pistol and a spare magazine and looks like any other type of generic notebook holder. In light of this I would say that the NM state attorney general would agree that any holster designed as such – regardless of how much the pistol is or isn’t visible – should be OK for open carry.

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Basic Guy wrote:

I find it really bizarre that in some instances LEO’s can say one guy carrying CC is not properly concealing his gun because it “printed” through his shirt while another LEO can say that another guy carrying OC does not have his in the open because it is in a holster. There shouldn’t be such a wide, ambiguous line dividing CC from OC – it should be either one or the other.

As for New Mexico, I know of a doctor there who carries a letter he got from the state attorney general which states that the Safepacker is considered a holster approved for open carry. For those who have not heard of the Safepacker it is a rectangular, nylon pouch made to strap onto a belt or strap. It holds a pistol and a spare magazine and looks like any other type of generic notebook holder. In light of this I would say that the NM state attorney general would agree that any holster designed as such – regardless of how much the pistol is or isn’t visible – should be OK for open carry.

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Can anyone provide a copy of this letter from the state attorney general? I think we would have seen this before. Never heard of such a ruling. If this is genuine, it should be shared with the Dept. of Public Safety and be put on their website.