• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Rights - Law professor speaks on exercising 5th amend rights

Flintlock

Flintlock

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
1,224
Location
Alaska, USA
imported post

Fascinating speach by the professor. Very informative but I think he needs to stay off the Red Bulls, lol.
 
M

Mike

Site Co-Founder
Joined
May 13, 2006
Messages
8,706
Location
Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
imported post

I did not mean this an an anti-police posting - police unions and their lawyers also tell the police to not waive their fifth amendment rights!
 
SpringerXDacp

SpringerXDacp

New member
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
3,341
Location
Burton, Michigan
imported post

Flintlock wrote:
Fascinating speach by the professor. Very informative but I think he needs to stay off the Red Bulls, lol.
Click to expand...

Indeed it was, but I think he worked his way through law school as an auctioneer.:)
 
S

swillden

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2007
Messages
1,189
Location
Firestone, Colorado
imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:
You must admit that the officer did not come across as a friend of armed citizen activists, even without an overt explicit statement pro or con.
Click to expand...
He didn't come across as either friend or foe of armed citizens. He came across as a guy doing a job: to find criminals and build a case that makes them easy to convict. If he's told that armed citizens are criminals, then he'll go after them and probably be very successful at putting them away. If he's told that they're okay, then he won't bother manipulating them into confessing crimes they may or may not have committed.

What I got from his talk was that a skilled "interviewer" can convict damned near anybody, innocent or guilty, but that's okay because a skilled interviewer can tell who is innocent and will let them go.

Don't Talk To Police, indeed.

Edit: Fixed typo.
 
I

imperialism2024

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,047
Location
Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

swillden wrote:
What I got from his talk was that a skilled "interviewer" can convict damned near anybody, innocent or guilty, but that's okay because a skilled interviewer can tell who is innocent and will let them go.
Click to expand...
On an unrelated note, yesterday I saw on FX that the last season of The Shield is airing later this year...
 
L

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

Very entertaining video.

Honest information provided by both people.
 
H

hsmith

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2007
Messages
1,687
Location
Virginia USA, ,
imported post

I can't watch shows like CSI/L&O because I end up getting flustered by the morons talking to police at the station
 
Rey

Rey

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2008
Messages
303
Location
Reston, Virginia, USA
imported post

hsmith wrote:
I can't watch shows like CSI/L&O because I end up getting flustered by the morons talking to police at the station
Click to expand...
+1 - I always shake my head and laugh. "Who the hell does that?????"
 
T

TheApostle

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 14, 2007
Messages
89
Location
, ,
imported post

+1 on The Shield Great show though completely unreal and over the top in some areas.

I make it a practice not even to talk to lawyers. Avoid all questions period!
 
Michigander

Michigander

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2007
Messages
4,818
Location
Mulligan's Valley
imported post

hsmith wrote:
I can't watch shows like CSI/L&O because I end up getting flustered by the morons talking to police at the station
Click to expand...


I can't watch those shows because of how unrealistic they are. Cops simply are not that emotionally involved in their jobs. Those shows are soap operas, and I despise any form of soap opera.

As for the confessions and talking, you'd have to be uninformed or an idiot to talk to the police if you think they have anything on you. Detectives are manipulative liars, and they are really good at pushing buttons.
 
L

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

Michigander wrote:
I can't watch those shows because of how unrealistic they are. Cops simply are not that emotionally involved in their jobs. Those shows are soap operas, and I despise any form of soap opera.

As for the confessions and talking, you'd have to be uninformed or an idiot to talk to the police if you think they have anything on you. Detectives are manipulative liars, and they are really good at pushing buttons.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything you said.

The police are allowed to lie and I have done it to get the bad guy to confess. :cool:
 
Flintlock

Flintlock

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
1,224
Location
Alaska, USA
imported post

LEO 229 wrote:
Michigander wrote:
I can't watch those shows because of how unrealistic they are. Cops simply are not that emotionally involved in their jobs. Those shows are soap operas, and I despise any form of soap opera.

As for the confessions and talking, you'd have to be uninformed or an idiot to talk to the police if you think they have anything on you. Detectives are manipulative liars, and they are really good at pushing buttons.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything you said.

The police are allowed to lie and I have done it to get the bad guy to confess.
Click to expand...
As a public servant, do you not find that to be unethical? Does your department have a code of ethics?
 
D

danbus

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2006
Messages
495
Location
Hampton, Virginia, USA
imported post

Flintlock wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Michigander wrote:
I can't watch those shows because of how unrealistic they are. Cops simply are not that emotionally involved in their jobs. Those shows are soap operas, and I despise any form of soap opera.

As for the confessions and talking, you'd have to be uninformed or an idiot to talk to the police if you think they have anything on you. Detectives are manipulative liars, and they are really good at pushing buttons.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything you said.

The police are allowed to lie and I have done it to get the bad guy to confess.
Click to expand...
As a public servant, do you not find that to be unethical? Does your department have a code of ethics?
Click to expand...

I would like to add my say on that.

In the scope of a LEOs duties, I find it useful to "lie" to a criminal in order to get a solid case. If known rapist is being interrogated, nothing wrong with moving facts around to catch the BG in a lie or trap him.

However, I do find physical interrogation to gain a confession unethical. Nothing wrong with playing mind games, IMO.
 
Flintlock

Flintlock

Regular Member
Joined
May 26, 2006
Messages
1,224
Location
Alaska, USA
imported post

danbus wrote:
Flintlock wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Michigander wrote:
I can't watch those shows because of how unrealistic they are. Cops simply are not that emotionally involved in their jobs. Those shows are soap operas, and I despise any form of soap opera.

As for the confessions and talking, you'd have to be uninformed or an idiot to talk to the police if you think they have anything on you. Detectives are manipulative liars, and they are really good at pushing buttons.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything you said.

The police are allowed to lie and I have done it to get the bad guy to confess.
Click to expand...
As a public servant, do you not find that to be unethical? Does your department have a code of ethics?
Click to expand...

I would like to add my say on that.

In the scope of a LEOs duties, I find it useful to "lie" to a criminal in order to get a solid case. If known rapist is being interrogated, nothing wrong with moving facts around to catch the BG in a lie or trap him.

However, I do find physical interrogation to gain a confession unethical. Nothing wrong with playing mind games, IMO.
Click to expand...
I see.. And I am sure this is being done with a lawyer present? Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.....Unless you have had a jedi mind-trick cast upon you by the local law enforcement officials...
 
I

imperialism2024

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
3,047
Location
Catasauqua, Pennsylvania, USA
imported post

Flintlock wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Michigander wrote:
I can't watch those shows because of how unrealistic they are. Cops simply are not that emotionally involved in their jobs. Those shows are soap operas, and I despise any form of soap opera.

As for the confessions and talking, you'd have to be uninformed or an idiot to talk to the police if you think they have anything on you. Detectives are manipulative liars, and they are really good at pushing buttons.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything you said.

The police are allowed to lie and I have done it to get the bad guy to confess.
Click to expand...
As a public servant, do you not find that to be unethical? Does your department have a code of ethics?
Click to expand...
I generally believe it is unethical to lie to extract a confession in today's criminal "justice" system where one is essentially guilty until proven innocent. Now, in a slightly more perfect world, where every person convicted of a crime went to a trial where a fair and impartial jury looked at the evidence and rendered a verdict, I wouldn't have a problem with the police lying. But where the goal now is to get a guilty plea for every person charged with a crime, and with rampant plea bargaining, lying just adds to the pressure for an innocent person to confess to a crime. "What? You didn't rape the girl? Then how do you explain the, um, uh, DNA evidence on her that links you to the crime? Don't know how it got there, eh? Well, if you keep saying you didn't do it, you're gonna fry for this... just confess and we'll tell the judge to be nice to you, and hell, you'll be outta jail in a few years."

Now, I can see lying to get information relevant to a case. If someone tells where to find a bloody shirt, for example, due to the belief that other evidence exists, then fine. But confessions? No.
 
L

LEO 229

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2007
Messages
7,606
Location
USA
imported post

Flintlock wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
Michigander wrote:
I can't watch those shows because of how unrealistic they are. Cops simply are not that emotionally involved in their jobs. Those shows are soap operas, and I despise any form of soap opera.

As for the confessions and talking, you'd have to be uninformed or an idiot to talk to the police if you think they have anything on you. Detectives are manipulative liars, and they are really good at pushing buttons.
Click to expand...
I can agree with everything you said.

The police are allowed to lie and I have done it to get the bad guy to confess.
Click to expand...
As a public servant, do you not find that to be unethical? Does your department have a code of ethics?
Click to expand...
NO!!

and

The courts allow the police to lie during interviews so this has nothing to do with department regulations on ethics. The police cannot lie on reports or in court.

But it perfectly acceptable to lie during an interview with a bad guy who IS going to lie to you. It keeps things fair.

Think about it this way... if the police had to tell the truth... a bad guy could demand to know what evidence they had on him. The police would be required to tell him the "truth" andwhen he determines what they have he would know they had nothing and walk out.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top