• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

New Washington State Supreme Court Decision: Unlawful Terry Stop

surfj9009

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
639
Location
Spokane, WA, ,
imported post

Sorry, My link must not go straight to it for you huh?

Docket Number: 79992-0
Title of Case: State v. Gatewood
File Date: 05/01/2008
Oral Argument Date: 03/13/2008
 

Shy_Panda

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
336
Location
Spokane / Pullman, Washington, USA
imported post

Although I don't like the fact that he did have drugs and an illegal firearm, I do like the fact that the court was able to uphold the rights of an individual citizen and further clarify the requirements of a lawful terry stop.
 

surfj9009

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2008
Messages
639
Location
Spokane, WA, ,
imported post

Shy_Panda wrote:
Although I don't like the fact that he did have drugs and an illegal firearm, I do like the fact that the court was able to uphold the rights of an individual citizen and further clarify the requirements of a lawful terry stop.
+1
 

rysa

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
77
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

this is interesting. I'll have to check lexis for more relevant documents to this kind of thing, it could build a pretty solid case for anyone who is "harassed" by the cops.
 

rysa

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2008
Messages
77
Location
Kent, Washington, USA
imported post

I read those, they're all good. I think a repository of case law is something good to have. I'll check shepards and see if its still good; though im sure it all is.
 

bobernet

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
333
Location
Henderson, Nevada, USA
imported post

Shy_Panda wrote:
Although I don't like the fact that he did have drugs and an illegal firearm, I do like the fact that the court was able to uphold the rights of an individual citizen and further clarify the requirements of a lawful terry stop.

There's nothing about it I don't like, honestly. Felon = gun ban for life is ridiculous, and our "war on drugs" has cost far more money and lives than it's ever saved in my opinion.

I'm not a big fan of malum prohibitum in general. If we spent our enforcement energies and monies on malum in se (the real reason for "ignorance of the law is no excuse"), we'd be a much happier, freer and less incarcerated people.
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
imported post

bobernet wrote:
Shy_Panda wrote:
Although I don't like the fact that he did have drugs and an illegal firearm, I do like the fact that the court was able to uphold the rights of an individual citizen and further clarify the requirements of a lawful terry stop.

There's nothing about it I don't like, honestly. Felon = gun ban for life is ridiculous, and our "war on drugs" has cost far more money and lives than it's ever saved in my opinion.

I'm not a big fan of malum prohibitum in general. If we spent our enforcement energies and monies on malum in se (the real reason for "ignorance of the law is no excuse"), we'd be a much happier, freer and less incarcerated people.


Citizenship is something that is valuable (at least to some of us who have seen what it can cost. Mybe everyone should have to serve to earn the right to be a citizen. See Starship Troopers for and examole)and those that don't value it should loose it, you know like felons and others to stupid to appreciate it. The reason the war on drugs doesn't work is because of people with your attitude. We need to get tough about it, instead of half measures that people like you advocate.
 

Shy_Panda

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2008
Messages
336
Location
Spokane / Pullman, Washington, USA
imported post

China has been winning the war on drugs... they have some pretty strict rules, for example if you are caught with drugs and can be considered a dealer then they just sort of put you to death, rarely with a trial. I am obviously not advocating this in a country as great as ours, but they are able to win the war. Personally I think that drugs should be legalized and taxed like nobodys business but until that point they are illegal and should carry with them stiff penalties. I say all of this having never taken drugs other than what I was given by doctors and the occasional beer. I am of the mindset that everyone, including the government should stay out of my life and I will stay out of everyone else's lives.
 

bobernet

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Messages
333
Location
Henderson, Nevada, USA
imported post

Bear 45/70 wrote:

Citizenship is something that is valuable (at least to some of us who have seen what it can cost. Mybe everyone should have to serve to earn the right to be a citizen. See Starship Troopers for and examole)and those that don't value it should loose it, you know like felons and others to stupid to appreciate it. The reason the war on drugs doesn't work is because of people with your attitude. We need to get tough about it, instead of half measures that people like you advocate.

Hmmm... In many states, carrying a concealed weapon without a permit is a felony. So, if you're open carrying and the wind blows your shirt over your gun momentarily... you deserve to have your citizenship revoked?

The reason the "war on drugs" doesn't work is the same reason prohibition didn't work.

P.S. I don't advocate half-measures, I advocate *no* measures. Just like I don't avocate a "war on alcohol" a "war on tobacco" a "war on trans fats" or a "war on people who want to ride a motorcycle without a helmet."

Before you spew your snide tone, consider that you don't know anything about the service history (or otherwise) of those you deride on the Internet. I did serve - in wartime. Although, unlike you, I don't consider military service to make me any more qualified to have an opinion than those you accuse of being "to [sic] stupid" to appreciate their citizenship or really, "non-felon status" since no one was discussing citizenship until your post.
 

Citizen

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
18,269
Location
Fairfax Co., VA
imported post

Bear 45/70 wrote:
SNIP Citizenship is something that is valuable (at least to some of us who have seen what it can cost. Mybe everyone should have to serve to earn the right to be a citizen. See Starship Troopers for and examole)and those that don't value it should loose it, you know like felons and others to stupid to appreciate it.
Thanks, Bear! You jogged something for me!

I got to thinking, would "valuing citizenship" really do us any good? I thought not. We'd still end up with the looney left, the neo-cons, the greedy,the ambitious being able to vote.

I wondered if earned or valued citizenship was the right standard to apply. Which one would be?Wait a minute. We already know that answer.The Founders gave people the right to vote, that is they used a form of democracy, for exactly only one reason: to avoid tyranny.

Then it hit me!

"IT IS THE FIRST DUTY OF EVERY VOTER TO WATCH CAREFULLY AND GUARD AGAINST TYRANNY."

This isn't some inspirational thought to be trotted out on the 4th of July. It isn't just a good idea. It isn't just a matter of some people trust government and somemistrust government according to personal opinionand subject to debate as to which opinion is better. Its at the very foundations of our government.

Citizenship--the franchise--would need, no, it MUST hinge on the willingnessto guardagainst tyranny.

Every voter who pulls a lever without having examined for tyranny is violating the very reason they were given a vote.
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
imported post

bobernet wrote:
Bear 45/70 wrote:

Citizenship is something that is valuable (at least to some of us who have seen what it can cost. Mybe everyone should have to serve to earn the right to be a citizen. See Starship Troopers for and examole)and those that don't value it should loose it, you know like felons and others to stupid to appreciate it. The reason the war on drugs doesn't work is because of people with your attitude. We need to get tough about it, instead of half measures that people like you advocate.

Hmmm... In many states, carrying a concealed weapon without a permit is a felony. So, if you're open carrying and the wind blows your shirt over your gun momentarily... you deserve to have your citizenship revoked?

The reason the "war on drugs" doesn't work is the same reason prohibition didn't work.

P.S. I don't advocate half-measures, I advocate *no* measures. Just like I don't avocate a "war on alcohol" a "war on tobacco" a "war on trans fats" or a "war on people who want to ride a motorcycle without a helmet."

Before you spew your snide tone, consider that you don't know anything about the service history (or otherwise) of those you deride on the Internet. I did serve - in wartime. Although, unlike you, I don't consider military service to make me any more qualified to have an opinion than those you accuse of being "to [sic] stupid" to appreciate their citizenship or really, "non-felon status" since no one was discussing citizenship until your post.
If you are stupid enough to wear a shirt that can blow over your open carried weapon, then are are too stupid to be open carrying. Good God, don't make excuse for felons and stupid people. You sure don't act like you value your citizenship. You sound like it is just fine if the Congress gives it to anyone, felons and illegals alike. Not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is like not wearing a helmet in a race car during a race, very, very stupid. Usually those without helmets are those without any provisions to care for them when they become vegetables, so the public ends up picking up the tab, not my idea of a responsible person. The loss of gun rights is because you lost your citizenship and you brought up the loss of gun rights. You can't vote or have any other of those privileges of citizenship, gun rights included.
 

tjschul

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
53
Location
Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
imported post

"Not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is like not wearing a helmet in a race car during a race, very, very stupid."

No its not, and its none of your business in the first place. Do I tell you what kind of hearing protection you have to wear while shooting, or what kind of eye protection to wear while running your saw?

That's the problem with this state, too many people want to be my mommy. I'll decide when I take a risk, and you decide for yourself please.
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
imported post

tjschul wrote:
"Not wearing a helmet on a motorcycle is like not wearing a helmet in a race car during a race, very, very stupid."

No its not, and its none of your business in the first place. Do I tell you what kind of hearing protection you have to wear while shooting, or what kind of eye protection to wear while running your saw?

That's the problem with this state, too many people want to be my mommy. I'll decide when I take a risk, and you decide for yourself please.
What little you know aboutmotorcycle accidentsis show by your statement. Try being and EMT responding to accidents, bike accidents ar the worst. I would be dead withouthelmets, 3 times. Once in a race car, once in a race boat and once on a motorcycle after 30 years of riding without a major accident.So yeah, a helmet on a bike is smart. The Docscan fix almost every part of you except your smashed head. The trouble with you is you want to be irresponsible.
 
Top