Friends Claim Man Killed by Houston Police After High-Speed Chase Was CIA Agent

imported post

Source

Authorities are investigating mysterious claims that a man killed by Houston police after a car chase was a CIA agent, MyFOXHouston reported.[/b]

Roland Vincent Carnaby, 52, was initially pulled over during a routine traffic stop Tuesday, but drove off when the officer discovered his concealed weapon license. A high-speed chase ensued, during which Carnaby was said to be armed.

Houston officers said they shot him as he was getting out of his Jeep SUV because he made a sudden move, according to MyFOXHouston. He died en route to the hospital, police said.

During a close inspection of Carnaby’s vehicle, police found two pistols and a rifle.

While the CIA denies that Carnaby worked there, friends insist he was a federal intelligence agent, according to The Houston Chronicle. His SUV was reportedly owned by the National Association for Intelligence Officers and he was the president of the organization's local chapter.

Friends say they witnessed Carnaby socializing with local law enforcement officials and high-level CIA bureaucrats.

Car dealer Alan Helfman told the Chronicle that he met Carnaby more than a decade ago when "a mutual friend high in law enforcement" brought him to buy a car. Carnaby told Helfman that he was a federal officer who worked in intelligence, and the two became close.

Click to expand...

I wonder why he ran? He had a CCW...it just doesn't make sense.

imported post

http://news.google.com/news?q=Roland Vincent Carnaby A G00gle web search gets different hits.

A very strange story.

imported post

The black Jeep Commander Carnaby was driving is registered to the National Security Command Center. - http://www.myfoxhouston.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=6439193&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1
----
I'm not aware of the "National Security Command Center," and this might be the first crack in the eggshell.
----
http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou080430_tnt_chasefolo.b6bd990f.html

A spokesman for the CIA said that while the agency doesn’t normally confirm or deny a person’s employment with the CIA, "he was never a CIA officer."

David Adler was a case officer with the intelligence agency for five years and has met Carnaby. "It is almost impossible to find out if somebody claims to be an intelligence officer, if they really were unfortunately." When Adler looked at Carnaby’s things, he noticed details that might have slipped by a layperson. "This word 'completion' is spelled wrong," Adler said, pointing to one of the mementos and noting something off about another. "There is no 'Iraq Division' of the CIA." [Of course, a misspelling on a memento means little, if anything.]

imported post

Pointman wrote:

[Of course, a misspelling on a memento means little, if anything.]

Click to expand...

I disagree. It is clear evidence of inattention to detail that wasn't tolerated in my little corner of civil service (where I was in the 85-percentile).

imported post

This is odd...

They did not post a reason he would need to run. He had stopped and was talking to the police and then split.

Maybe the CC permit was under his CIA fake name and he had to do everything he could to prevent it from being disclosed.

Maybe he had a flashback and thought the cop was a KGB agent.

imported post

How can you have a "mysterious" claim?

Its either claimed or it isn't.

Its either verifiable or it isn't.

Who "reportedly" said the SUV was owned by an intelligence officer's association?

The only thing mysterious here is the reporter's reporting.

imported post

This could end up being rather interesting.

imported post

Citizen wrote:

How can you have a "mysterious" claim?

Its either claimed or it isn't.

Its either verifiable or it isn't.

Who "reportedly" said the SUV was owned by an intelligence officer's association?

The only thing mysterious here is the reporter's reporting.

Click to expand...

And we all know how accurate and unbiased the media is these days right?

imported post

Yeah I'm sure he was a real spy.

[flash=320,256]http://www.youtube.com/v/ZOaRmOLu21w&hl=en[/flash]

imported post

More than likely he is one of a million wannabe frauds.

imported post

All the CIA Operatives I know tell everybody and their brother where they work.

imported post

Would a CIA agent need a CCW? I would think that a CIA badge/ID would be like a LEO/FBI badge and suffice for CCW. This sounds like a spy wannabe that was about to be ousted.

imported post

VAopencarry wrote:

All the CIA Operatives I know tell everybody and their brother where they work.

Click to expand...

Exactly. The only two groups I've seen that publicize this are (1) those who's employment there is publickknowledge (ie, they're NOT "operatives") or (2) those who are playing politics (whether local or national doesn't matter - and nor does it matter if they actually are employed there or not.).

imported post

It doesn't matter if he was a agent or not. The trigger happy boys in blue execute another one. After shooting him, they handcuff him and leave him to bleed out on the pavement. When asked why they didn't administer first aid till paramedics arrived, they answered, we are only trained in cpr, not first-aid. Really. Oh, and the weapons were only found after it was towed back to the yard. How convienent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEw2u3O8ATk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_sDeb0ApVw



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/hotstories/5748085.html
For a person who was so supportive of law enforcement, Carnaby's final agony angers lawyer Brooten, who criticized the officers present for handcuffing him instead of administering medical care.
"All of this other stuff (about Carnaby's mysterious life) is all very interesting, but it is of no consequence when you consider a man is dead and he died handcuffed and nobody tried to stop the bleeding or anything," Brooten said. "You know what you call that? You call that an assassination."
Jett defended the officers at the scene, saying they are not trained to assist people with serious gunshot wounds.
"We would handcuff people and try to get them comfortable, but we're not paramedics, and most officers don't know about giving first aid like that other than CPR, and you don't want to give CPR to a gunshot victim," he said.
Investigators later found three weapons in Carnaby's car, police said. One pistol was under the passenger-side floormat. A second was between the seats. On the back seat floorboard lay a pistol-grip shotgun with a round in the chamber and the safety off.

imported post

There is a lot more to come out of this. I would like to see more of the video of the stop. The brief parts shown in those 2 newsclips leave me feeling that I'm missing something.

stevewonderful wrote:

Jett defended the officers at the scene, saying they are not trained to assist people with serious gunshot wounds.
"We would handcuff people and try to get them comfortable, but we're not paramedics, and most officers don't know about giving first aid like that other than CPR, and you don't want to give CPR to a gunshot victim," he said.

Click to expand...

Ok, so let's see if I understand this. If that had been an HPD officer shot, they would have all stood around looking at him and saying, "Dood, we would sooo like to help you, but, you know, we're not trained in giving first and stuff except for CPR and we aren't supposed to give you CPR if you've been shot. Can we do anything to make you comfortable?"

Or if I were ever in an altercation where I got injuried in Houston I think I would call 911 and say, "Doooodd, send an ambulance but DO NOT send HPD because they'll just handcuff me, try to make me comfortable and let me bleed out!!"

Ok, enough morbid humor. This is yet another case where it is not what is said but the way it is said that seems to show an utter disregard for the citizenry that the PD is supposed to "serve and protect" according to millions of police cars. Capt Jett could have said, "We do not train our officers in first aid, only CPR, and therefore have a department policy to just make the person comfortable until paramedics arrive." Fine, there's a policy. Good, bad or indifferent, there is a policy and if you don't like what hte LEO did, call the mayor's office and demand a change in the policy.

The way Capt Jett said it is disingenuous because you KNOW, for an absolute FACT, that if a fellow officer had been shot, all of a sudden half those guys would have known first-aid and would have been finding shirts or towels and putting pressure on the wounds to staunch the bleeding until the paramedics got there. How dare Cpt Jett try to blow smoke up the citizens' butts! I swear, the number one enemy of LEO on the street are LEO in administrative positions. :banghead:

imported post

Well said Deepdiver.

Where's LEO229? I really can't wait to here his evaluation of these events. :question:

imported post

I am not sure what treatment people expect the police to give to a shooting victim.

Cops have a store brand first aid kit in the trunk. There is no morphine, scalpel, sutures, or a nurse. They are nt trained to crack open a chest and repair a bleeding organ.

Shot in the armsor leg...?Direct pressure and elevate the injury.I am not sure what a cop can do for a shooting victim hit in the chest.

Does he get cuffed even after being shot? Damn right!! This is going to almost always happen as the person could still be a danger after being shot. I know it does not seem all that warm and fuzzy... but your training kicks in and cuffing the bad guy is part of that training.

So you tell me??What should be done with a guy that has been shot in the chest and is dying? What do you want the officer to do besides keep him from being ran over while he calls for rescue.

imported post

LEO 229 wrote:

I am not sure what treatment people expect the police to give to a shooting victim.

Cops have a store brand first aid kit in the trunk. There is no morphine, scalpel, sutures, or a nurse. They are nt trained to crack open a chest and repair a bleeding organ.

Shot in the armsor leg...?Direct pressure and elevate the injury.I am not sure what a cop can do for a shooting victim hit in the chest.

Does he get cuffed even after being shot? Damn right!! This is going to almost always happen as the person could still be a danger after being shot. I know it does not seem all that warm and fuzzy... but your training kicks in and cuffing the bad guy is part of that training.

So you tell me??What should be done with a guy that has been shot in the chest and is dying? What do you want the officer to do besides keep him from being ran over while he calls for rescue?

Click to expand...

What they could have done is put on latex gloves and applied direct pressure to the wound. Regardless, what I took umbrage with was what was said by Jett and the way it was said rather than what they did at this point.

The very short video clips do cause me to scratch my head as to necessity, but as I said, they are far too short to give context of a full picture of events to armchair quarterback the LEOs actions.

imported post

*

imported post

deepdiver wrote:

What they could have done is put on latex gloves and applied direct pressure to the wound. Regardless, what I took umbrage with was what was said by Jett and the way it was said rather than what they did at this point.

The very short video clips do cause me to scratch my head as to necessity, but as I said, they are far too short to give context of a full picture of events to armchair quarterback the LEOs actions.

Click to expand...

Not all cops carry latex gloves when they should.

Most cops fear contracting AIDS andHepatitis C from blood exposure.

Direct pressure toa shot to the upper torso is pointless. You cannot stop internal bleeding from an organ.