Results 1 to 22 of 22

Thread: AGO - Unrestricted permit allows you to carry only one pistol... on person OR in vehicle???

  1. #1
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    59

    Post imported post



    I just came across this AGO ihave not seen before.

    http://www.ago.alabama.gov/oldopinions/8100044.pdf

    "At no time may a person have more than one pistol in a vehicle or concealed onor about his person."



    Brings up several interesting questions/arguments

    1) Can a person OC one pistol and CC another?

    2) Must trips to the range/gunshop be limited to only one pistol at a time?

    3) Must permitted carriers a transport 2nd 3rd 4th and so on pistols unloaded and locked in a secure compartment as non permitted persons must transport one pistol? or does i mean only one gun in he vehicle?

    4) What if 2 permitted persons went to the range in one vehicle both with their pistols. Are they breaking the law.... which one of them is actually breaking the law?

    Most LEO's I know carry a backup weapon. (Usually a Glock 27 on the ankle) 1 - CC and 1 - OC



    I've been a lurker on the site for quite a while and appreciate everyones opinions and information. look forward to meeting and shooting with some of you

    Jared
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, VA
    Posts
    676

    Post imported post

    I would take issue with that opinion, which itself is not mandatory legal authority (but might be found persuasive by a like-minded judge). Most states have a rule of statutory construction providing that unless a very specific statement to the contrary is used, a reference to a term in the singular includes the plural and vice versa (see subsequent post below for Ala. cite). Setting aside CA, NV, and NY (which list specific guns on their permits), only NM has a specific one-gun rule.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

  3. #3
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Enfield, Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    313

    Post imported post

    sounds like a bunch of BS..and a major violation of the 2nd amendment...i don't believe we have anything up here in CT like that...

  4. #4
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    I do not see any cite to authority by the AG justifying a limit to carrying only one pistol. Most or all state statutes refer to carrying "a concealed handgun" in their carry permit statutes - this has never been read to be "on;y one" pistol in any state courts as far as I know. The opinion was written in 1980 and seem pretty sketchy.

  5. #5
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    59

    Post imported post

    I agree with the the the stament that a singular refers infers a plural and vice versa, that's why this AGO caught my eye, because i and always understood that "a pistol" mean more than zero pistols.

    Mike no the AG does not have any authority to cite a limit, but his position, like the position of judges is to interpret the law. As far as the opinion being dated, we here in alabama point to an AGO dated March 21 1984 quite a bit when it come to the legality of of OC. If the AG interpreted the law as one pistol then i feel very strongly that a judge might do the same, especially upon reading this AGO. And whoever that unlucky individual was, would be spending quite a bit of money to get a reversal through appeals court.

    All i'm saying is we can't point to one AGO and totally dismiss another. Simply put gun laws in alabama need clarification... but then again ifwe rock the boat the revisions may benefit the anti's...

    Like i said... it raises some interesting questions...

    mike you are absolutely correct that the permit says nothing about only carring one pistol, in fact do not most permits have space to list 3 differt pistol S/N's?

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    797

    Post imported post

    This particular AG opinion has no case law background. Most likely you'd never get prosecuted for carrying more than one pistol, and even then the judge would probably laugh it out of court.

    The AG op on OC, however, does cite several cases. An AG's opinion is not law, and they have been wrong in the past. Since there was no previous case law on this I assume the AG just made something up.

    Again, don't really consider AG opinions to be more than that: opinions. The more important thing is to look at case law, and AG ops can be useful for that (they often base their opinions on case law...).

  7. #7
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    , Alabama, USA
    Posts
    935

    Post imported post

    denthack wrote:
    mike you are absolutely correct that the permit says nothing about only carring one pistol, in fact do not most permits have space to list 3 differt pistol S/N's?
    There is no place on a Alabam PL for serial numbers....they are not required unless you are issued a "qualified" PL that limits you to carrying a particular pistol and limits you as to where/when you may carry....
    I have never seen a "qualified" PL.....all I have ever seen say "unrestricted" on the front.
    That said, most PL's I've seen also have restrictions on the back...even though they are "unrestricted"....go figure.

  8. #8
    Moderator / Administrator
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    8,711

    Post imported post

    kurtmax_0 wrote:
    This particular AG opinion has no case law background.
    Right - this is the problem with it - not cite to authority that under Ala. law a permit to carry "a" thing limits one to carrying only one thing at one time.

    i would not worry about this opinion, and besides, the opinion is limited to concealed carry and carry in vehicles - so openly carrying one handgun on foot, and another concealed, would not even run afoul of this weird opinion.

  9. #9
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    59

    Post imported post

    Yes the fact that it has no case law to back it up I believe does tend to make this opinion have much less weight.I'm sure if an LEO wanted to aresst you certainly would not be the firstcharge that would come to mind. I appreciate all the comments and view points btw.



  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Dothan, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    I Totally agree with the Statement I Underlined in the "Quote"



    denthack wrote:
    I'm sure if an LEO wanted to aresst you, itcertainly would not be the firstcharge that would come to mind
    [line]



  11. #11
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    1

    Post imported post

    What bugs me is this ispretty much what AL permit law says! Only one allowed. There are many like me that compete in various handgun competitions around the state. On any given weekend, you'll find me and many others on the road with their carry gun and a competition gun (and a backup) in the car. AL law says you can transport a handgun back and forth to a gunsmith or gunshop and that's it! No provision for practice, competition, backup piece. I'd like to see the law updated.

  12. #12
    State Researcher
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, VA
    Posts
    676

    Post imported post

    Ala. CodeĀ§ 1-1-2 provides, as do the laws of almost every other state, that, absent a very clear legislative intent otherwise, "[t]he singular includes the plural, and the plural the singular." Click here to go to the Ala. Code home page.

    Harris v. Walker, 199 Ala. 51, 74 So. 40 (1917), and Boman v. Belyeu, 255 Ala. 281, 51 So.2d 27 (1951), have affirmed this principle of statutory construction in Alabama.

    I found no cases dealing directly with a contention that a licensee may only carry one pistol.

    Since this forum is dedicated to OC, I will note that Looney v. State, 41 Ala.App. 582, 141 So.2d 535 (Ala.App. 1962), and Morris v. State, 342 So.2d 417 (Ala.Crim.App. 1977), affirm a person's right to OC on foot without a license in Alabama.
    James M. "Jim" Mullins, Jr., Esq.
    Admitted to practice in West Virginia and Florida.

    Founder, Past President, Treasurer, and General Counsel, West Virginia Citizens Defense League, Inc.
    Life Member, NRA

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    Whew! I'd be in doo doo in Kentucky. I wear a Glock 21, have a .45 in glove box, an AR15 on passenger side and a Kukri on my dash.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    255

    Post imported post

    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Whew! I'd be in doo doo in Kentucky. I wear a Glock 21, have a .45 in glove box, an AR15 on passenger side and a Kukri on my dash.
    damn you think you carry enough there Mr Mitch, **** , your a rolling arsenal. I mean I totally love guns, pro gun 100% , but ****, are you paranoid or do you just live in a extremely bad neighborhood,lol

  15. #15
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    797

    Post imported post

    WVCDL wrote:
    Ala. CodeĀ*Ā§ 1-1-2 provides, as do the laws of almost every other state, that, absent a very clear legislative intent otherwise, "[t]he singular includes the plural, and the plural the singular." Click here to go to the Ala. Code home page.

    Harris v. Walker, 199 Ala. 51, 74 So. 40 (1917), and Boman v. Belyeu, 255 Ala. 281, 51 So.2d 27 (1951), have affirmed this principle of statutory construction in Alabama.
    There you have it. That answers the question pretty well. Thanks WVCDL.

  16. #16
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    255

    Post imported post

    I don't get it kurtmax0 what are you trying to say the law is saying, can you or can you not carry more then one gun with you. I hate the way the Al. law reads, its completely crazy to read and not to mention extremely confusing

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    Mr A....I'm not paranoid......but.....methinks my neighbors are now.

  18. #18
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Auburn, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    797

    Post imported post

    It means you can carry more than one pistol. That singular means plural and plural means singular unless there is clear legislative intent to mean either.

    Upon reading of the code pertaining to pistol permits, there doesn't seem to be any clear intent to restrict you to one pistol. 'a' is used casually in the sentence. IANAL.

  19. #19
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    255

    Post imported post

    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Mr A....I'm not paranoid......but.....methinks my neighbors are now.
    HOOAH! I understand Mr.Mitch

  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Alabama, ,
    Posts
    1,338

    Post imported post

    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Whew! I'd be in doo doo in Kentucky. I wear a Glock 21, have a .45 in glove box, an AR15 on passenger side and a Kukri on my dash.
    How did you convince the wife to sit in back so you could remove the passenger seat
    for the AR? Mine does allow me to 'holster' the shotgun on the back of her seat,
    but kicking her out of it is a whole lot more than I have the guts for.

    Back in my 20's I did remove the passenger seat so I could fit my r/c helicopter,
    but didn't have the wife to deal with then, and that car is long gone. Would
    love another one, 40mpg's is sorely missed nowadays. Plus storage boxes for
    pistols in front and back of car. Cop finally kicked me out of a drug search zone
    when he became exasperated with my suggestions that I could hide drugs in this
    storage box after the 5th suggestion he better look here also I was on my way.

    I had to cooperate, there was a open 1/5th in the seat, and the mandatory
    self protection concealed in car for when I was not in the DC crime free zones.:shock:
    3 police searches and not one ever found a pistol, there is no way I will rely
    on official protection for my person. I can understand a small revolver being
    missed, especially when it is mounted to be concealed, but a big bottle of
    booze is inexcusable. Like the car the radio that concealed the pistol was
    also discontinued, they always get rid of the good stuff it seems.







  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Hodgenville, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    1,261

    Post imported post

    Wife? Got rid of the last one 22 years ago. Just girlfriends now who KNOW how I am. HehHeh:celebrate

  22. #22
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Mobile, Alabama, USA
    Posts
    255

    Post imported post

    TheMrMitch wrote:
    Wife? Got rid of the last one 22 years ago. Just girlfriends now who KNOW how I am. HehHeh:celebrate
    lol, good one Mr. Mitch, love it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •