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Thread: 4th Amendment rights

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    Regular Member pro2A's Avatar
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    I'm from Pennsylvania and have a valid PA LTCF. Let’s say I am traveling thru Maryland on my way to West Virginia (Which honors PA permits) When I pass thru MD, I am in compliance with federal interstate transportation laws. Locked, separated from ammo etc... lets say I get stopped andthe LEO suspects I havea firearm in the car, and he asks me if I do. Obviously I’m not going to lie, and just say "Yes I do, and I am transporting it in accordance with federal interstate transport laws. It islocked and separated from the ammo in my trunk". When I tell him that, and he wants to do a search of the vehicle, can I still deny a search based on lack of probable cause that I am not doing anything illegal?

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    Regular Member Decoligny's Avatar
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    The correct answer is "Officer, I have nothing illegal in the car."

    If he then says, "Do you mind if I take a look in the car?" say "I do not consent to any search of my vehicle without a warrant."

    If he pulled you over for a traffic infraction, then he is very limited in the extent of any search.


    While protecting your 4th amandement rights, do not forget about exercising your 5th amandment rights.

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/10418.html

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    Until they ask: Do you have any weapons in your vehicle

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    "Am I free to leave? And I do not consent to any search of my vehicle."

    That should work.

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    chrisjames_71 wrote:
    Until they ask: Do you have any weapons in your vehicle
    I would most likely just say "I have no illegal weapons in my car".

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    Officer: "Any guns in the car?"

    Driver: "No, sir."

    Officer: "Mind if I search?"

    Driver:"[polite refusal]"

    [officer searches anyway, finds gun that is being transported federally compliant]

    Officer: "I thought you said there were no guns?"

    Driver: "I thought you were s'posed to uphold the Constitution?"


    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    mkl wrote:
    chrisjames_71 wrote:
    Until they ask: Do you have any weapons in your vehicle
    I would most likely just say "I have no illegal weapons in my car".
    Isn't the inference here that it's a crime to LIE to police? Don't lie, that could just turn out bad. Even if he "violates" your rights, he has training to detect lies. So he might be able to claim his search was legal on the basis that you appeared to be lying.

    Instead, just say "Sir, I'm not permitted to answer any questions without my lawyer present." That way, if he searches anyway, he is DEFINITELY violating your rights. Refusing a search and refusing to answer any questions is NOT articulable suspicion to escalate the encounter.

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    Officer Why do you ask that is something bad going onto night ? I'm I being detained on valid reasonable articulable suspicion or are you just being an ass ? I'm a member of the NRA's legal staff and find this question a bit odd.

    BUT since we roll over for everything you are welcome to search my car, strip search my wife and preform a road side cavity search on me (that is when you pull out the disposableexam gloves with the NRA logoand startundoing your belt).

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    Maryland code for transporting:
    http://mlis.state.md.us/asp/web_stat...?gcr&4-203

    I've never heard nor seen anything regarding a duty to inform, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist either through law or the perception of the person pulling you over. I carry all the time in Maryland while transporting to and from the range or on my way to Virginia. And when carrying, I do so in accordance with State law having the firearm(s) unloaded in an enclosed case. When traveling with a firearm through the State, I am usually much more aware of my driving and traffic regulations. If I was stopped and asked if I had anything in the vehicle the officer needed to know about, I would say that I have nothing illegal in the vehicle.

    Transport the firearm(s) according to law, obey the traffic laws, and you should be fine.

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    Regular Member VAopencarry's Avatar
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    Do not lie. Do not offer any more info then required.

    Legal possession of a firearm does not constitute PC.

    Always Deny a search because if they had PC they WOULDN'T ask you, they would just do it.

    ChiefCounsel
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

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    VAopencarry wrote:
    Do not lie. Do not offer any more info then required.

    Legal possession of a firearm does not constitute PC.

    Always Deny a search because if they had PC they WOULDN'T ask you, they would just do it.

    ChiefCounsel
    Even with probable cause, I think LE would still ask..... If it later turns out their probable cause was incorrect, they at least still have the consent.

    Like a criminal caught on tape, I think most LE would still prefer a confession if possible, and there's no harm in asking.

    One thought though -- If LE has probable cause and you refuse to consent, and are later arrested, he will probably report to the magistrate you were uncooperative, right? Depending on the charge, this could be the difference between a PRB Ino bail) and spending the night in jail waiting for someone to bail you out. Not that I suggest EVER consenting to a search or questioning, anyone have any experience/knowledge in this matter?


    Edited to add: GREAT LINK by the way, I read it after posting. Interesting insight and perspective, although generic (not addressing any specific states or laws). I think I will enjoy browsing this new site. Thanks!!

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