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Thread: No Firearms Signs

  1. #1
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    I saw this sign at the door to enter the Rainier Bar and Grill in Enumclaw after a day of hiking up in Greenwater. They do allow children under 21 inside the restaurant just not, of course, in the bar area. As it would happen, I wasn’t carrying at all so I wasn’t able to judge their response to open carry, but its placement right at the entrance seems inappropriate. Would this sign deter you from carrying inside even though it’s not in the proper place? I wonder if it may have been placed there by an owner/manager who doesn’t have an appreciation for firearms or their carry.



  2. #2
    Regular Member Mainsail's Avatar
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    Found this while google searching the businees for an email address:

    RAINIER BAR & GRILL
    1623 COLE ST
    ENUMCLAW
    WA98022-3509

    Violation:
    SALE/FURNISHING TO PERSON(S) UNDER 21 YOA
    Paid penalty in the amount of:$500




  3. #3
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    I played this game with two local places that got their liquor license and tried to tell me couldn't carry in the place anymore. A quick call to the liquor board and they sent an investigator out and corrected the problem.

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    Restaurants willuse this as a form of doublespeak. While we know what the law encompasses on firearms, the general public doesn't. This gives the feeling of security without real security.

  5. #5
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    The Ram on the Tacoma waterfront has their sign just as you come in the door. It still did not stop me from OC'ing with the family in the restaurant section.

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    Ichiban and Flaming Joes in Spokane have the same sign posted at the entrance, while it should be posted at the bar.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    I played this game with two local places that got their liquor license and tried to tell me couldn't carry in the place anymore. A quick call to the liquor board and they sent an investigator out and corrected the problem.
    If this actually works, then maybe you could furnish us with the phone number you used to call them and get the restaurants reported?
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    just_a_car wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    I played this game with two local places that got their liquor license and tried to tell me couldn't carry in the place anymore. A quick call to the liquor board and they sent an investigator out and corrected the problem.
    If this actually works, then maybe you could furnish us with the phone number you used to call them and get the restaurants reported?
    Yeah, it worked just fine. Call Liquor Control Enforcement at 360-753-6271 or 360-664-1780

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    Regular Member thebastidge's Avatar
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    Yes, it would deter me from patronizing their establishment, if after a short conversation with their manager, they didn't correct it.

    Regardless of being legal, I don't need the hassle, and they apparently don't need my money.
    Be prepared. Be very prepared.

    http://swwsurplus.com/ *** 2519 E Fourth Plain Blvd Vancouver WA 98661 *** 360.314.6687
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  10. #10
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    I played this game with two local places that got their liquor license and tried to tell me couldn't carry in the place anymore. A quick call to the liquor board and they sent an investigator out and corrected the problem.
    If this actually works, then maybe you could furnish us with the phone number you used to call them and get the restaurants reported?
    Yeah, it worked just fine. Call Liquor Control Enforcement at 360-753-6271 or 360-664-1780
    Thanks a bunch Bear. Hopefully this number will get those establishments we find in violation of the 'rules' set down by the WA LCB back "in line" so that we and other less-informed citizens can carry in peace.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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  11. #11
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    My son wants to join the Job Corps. I set up the appointment and take him to the Lakewood Work Source, Job Center. We get there early and while waiting he points out the door to me. There is a sign that says no weapons. I'm a little confused because I thought this was a State run facility but because it has the Job Corps office in it I thought it might be a Federal facility. So just in case, I lock the pistol in the safe and we proceeded in. I took pics outside and as I got in the door I was asked why? I asked if the facility was a State facility or federal. The reply was State. I was told by Lori at the front desk that the reason for the sign was that someone had come into a downtown office with a CC permit and shot 2 people.
    I did not make a statement at that time as I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight as I will be returning in a few days to complete his registration. To my understanding this facility would be covered under RCW 9.41.290 ? if I'm about to be the test case for this facility I want to make sure I have my info correct.


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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    M1Gunr, it sure sounds like they're preempted, due to being a State facility and not given exception under 9.41.290.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    So for the liquor part of this thread I went ahead and contacted the liquor control board who put me in touch with a Lt., I assume from the State Liquor Enforcement but I am not sure. Here is her answer to my question about places that are open to people under 21 until a certain time then are off limits to them. This is the same as everybody here thought but at least we have someone of authority giving the same interpretation.

    In reading the RCW, it seems pretty clear the prohibition is for “areas classified by the Liquor Control Board as off limits to persons under the age of 21” So for any area that is not classified as off limits until 9:00pm the prohibition wouldn’t apply until 9:00pm.
    However, this is a really interesting question; when RCW 9 was written, it was probably prior to the Board ever approving some areas to be classified during certain hours of operation. When the RCW was written, the boundaries between lounges and dining rooms were probably much clearer than they are today. If I learn that I’m incorrect in my interpretation of the law, I’ll let you know, but I think you’re on safe ground up until the time the “no minors” rule is in effect.
    "A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."

    "though I walk through the valley in the shadow of death, I fear no evil, for I know that you are by my side" Glock 23:40

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    Great job, joerocket! If she does come back with something different, please update us.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
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    M1Gunr, before you become a test case I would suggest either you or someone from this board ask to speak to the manager. Find out from them who their boss is, etc. If it turns out it's directly a State facility then I'd say it'd be a good time to challenge that sign.

  16. #16
    Regular Member Gene Beasley's Avatar
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    M1Gunr - I would concur on the approach. I know the feeling where you just get so completely fed up with entity after entity coming up with rules outside the scope of their authority. You will be money and sanity ahead by fighting this through channels rather than being a test-case. A wise man, who has been at this much longer than I, managed to settle me down. A firearms lawyer would be a good place to turn; better for this than for criminal advice.

  17. #17
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    If you give me the address I'll stop by and scope the place out. I'll even talk to the manager.

  18. #18
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    This is the place? Great. I'm going to Lakewood tomorrow anyway. I'll talk to the manager.


    WorkSource Lakewood Affiliate
    Lakewood
    WorkSource Affiliate
    Serving Pierce County
    Contact: Debbie Denton
    10107 S. Tacoma Way Bldg A Suite 2
    Lakewood, WA 98499
    Phone: (253) 589-7119
    FAX: (253) 589-6349
    TTY: (253) 587-6351
    Email: worksourcepierce@esd.wa.gov


    And that contact e-mail ends in .wa.gov which means it's State run.

  19. #19
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    quentusrex wrote:
    This is the place? Great. I'm going to Lakewood tomorrow anyway. I'll talk to the manager.


    WorkSource Lakewood Affiliate
    Lakewood
    WorkSource Affiliate
    Serving Pierce County
    Contact: Debbie Denton
    10107 S. Tacoma Way Bldg A Suite 2
    Lakewood, WA 98499
    Phone: (253) 589-7119
    FAX: (253) 589-6349
    TTY: (253) 587-6351
    Email: worksourcepierce@esd.wa.gov


    And that contact e-mail ends in .wa.gov which means it's State run.
    That's the contact info I got as well. I sent her an email and attached a copy of the pamphlet monday afternoon.

  20. #20
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    Mainsail wrote:
    Found this while google searching the businees for an email address:

    RAINIER BAR & GRILL
    1623 COLE ST
    ENUMCLAW
    WA98022-3509

    Violation:
    SALE/FURNISHING TO PERSON(S) UNDER 21 YOA
    Paid penalty in the amount of:$500


    Happens every day. Here in Texas the penalty is tougher (to the tune of about $2500 for a first violation) and there are very few valid defenses. Hell, one of my assistant managers got one of those when I was working at a mexican food place in college (we sold beer and frozen margaritas) when the TABC sent in an under-21 to try to buy. The only saving grace with a sting is that the minor trying to buy is not allowed to try to pass off a fake ID, and if you ask whether he's 21 he must answer truthfully. If however the under-21 is not an agent and is caught with the alcohol or intoxicated,it is not a valid defense to sayhe passed off a fake ID unless that fake ID has EVERY LAST SECURITY FEATURE present on Texas licenses. It is then a "deceptively similar document". I think my manager also managed to get his charge dismissed because he's an older guy who needed bifocals, and read '08' as '03' on the "Under 21 Until" date on under-21 licenses. I personally don't see how his lawyer made that fly; that's the kind of mistake anyone can make, but if anyone else but the manager-in-charge had made that mistake they'd have been led out in handcuffs.

  21. #21
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    I've talked to the WorkSource location. While I was there I also got some info for a school project.

    It seems it was an accidental ignorance of the state laws. It seems that 'the sign is as old as the building'. I believe this situation will be resolved. The Specialist I talked to also was interested in the Washington laws about carrying. She didn't like the sound that the police would take more than 3-5 minutes to arrive after a 9-1-1 call. She agrees that it'd all be over by then...

    I think this is resolving itself.

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