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Thread: Seriously Shaken

  1. #1
    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    So yesterday we had weapons qual and obviously the topic of firearms is going to come up one way or another. I don't remember exactly how it came about but I got into an argument with one of the guys in my unit over the legality of OC, he somewhat recently got out of the academy or something to that affect. We went back and forth with the whole, it must be concealed if you have a CPL, so if I don't have a permit then I am more free if I do have a permit, sort of thing. I said that I OC quite frequently and have actually been thrown out of businesses for it because they didn't understand the law, he came back with "I would arrest you" I asked for what, obeying the law? He brought up causing alarm to which I brought up the State v. cassad case and said that they would get sued and lose. He continued to press that if he saw me OCing and three people noticed and walked away that he would have me for causing alarm plus the three witnesses going against me. I again said that so long as it is in a holster and I don't have my hand on it there is nothing that they can do about it. This brought up other individuals who are police officers in the surrounding area who said that it is illegal and finally settling on it is a gray area after I argued just about every point I had (I didn't have any WGR's on me seeing as how I was in uniform and out at the range). Then the First Sergeant came over and got involved asking if I had or wanted a security clearance, to which I replied that I would like one. He essentially said that if I wanted one I would have to stay off the polices radar and that my career could be seriously damaged by taking a stance on issues like this one (obviously this is not exactly what he said, I am paraphrasing from my memory of the situation). Having at least three individuals, two of whom I greatly respect, basically threatening me I don't know how often I will be OCing around the Spokane area, I feel much more comfortable down in Pullman where the police are considerably more friendly. I am fully aware that this is essentially chickening out and a betrayal of sorts to my beliefs, but until it becomes more common knowledge within the Spokane PD and other forces in the area I honestly don't think I will be OCing around town that often.

  2. #2
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator Gray Peterson's Avatar
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    Unit? Who are these people? PD? MP's? You aren't being very specific and you're getting spooked over nothing.

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    I was unaware that obeying the law would effect a security clearance. Contact with LE is not gonna get you denied a security clearance if you have not broken the law. If that was so I would never have had a top secret clearance. Nazi Sgt. that threaten you with things they know nothing about are not helping anyone.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    It is a reserve unit in Spokane, but the individuals work for various police departments and correctional facilities throughout the area, I honestly don't know which ones exactly. I will be gone for some training during the summer so it will give me a chance to let my nerves settle, which won't take long anyway, today sort of did it for me. I won't be able to be active again until August regardless of what happens, but it just made me realize that I need to be more confident about my knowledge and have the RCW's memorized like many of you on the west side and have a copy of the WGR, training bulletins from that side, and AG opinions on me at all times. Plus the recorder is always a help. I am planning on mailing a WGR to each and every one of the departments in the area as well as opinions and such, just to sort of warm the waters a bit for me when I get back.

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    Sounds like you need to send that info to your First Sergeant in his official military capacity, i.e. to his unit e-mail or snail mail. If they are that confused, what would they be like in a domestic emergency scenario? (aka Katrina/N.O.L.A.)

  6. #6
    Regular Member badger's Avatar
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    Hey there Shy Panda,

    1st of all, THANK YOU FOR SERVING! I spent 6 years Active US Army as a 19D Cav Scout and know exactly how ***** NCO's can get the "God Complex". I remember how much pressure they can put on lower enlisted soldiers. As hard as it may seem, while you're off duty f**king relax! No matter what BS they may throw around while you're drilling or training, it is only that...BS. You OCing is not going to (in any way) affect you getting a TS, your assmunching chain-of-command continuing to be assmunches may be an issue though. If it's easier to zip your lip while with your unit, then do so. But when you're on your own time forget about them. You made it through BCT, you can OC with confidence brother. Take care.

    -Badger
    1911 before dialing 911.

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    Regular Member thebastidge's Avatar
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    Remember you can only get a UCMJ violation while on Title 10 orders- active duty. anything else comes under state and federal law.

    As for police radar- to reinforce what others have said, you cannot get in trouble for contact with police, only for doing something illegal. Security clearances are not denied for activism unless you are trying to overthrow the government.

    Iwouldn't say you need to memorize things. I would just bring the documentation to your next drill. Once you get to a point where arguing comes to an impasse against closed mninds, it is usually best to back off and try a new line of attack. If someone doubts your basic knowledge, spouting off in a "yes it is" "no it isn't" fashion won't get you anywhere, but "I'll get you the references before next month" might.

    Somebody quoted something at me yesterday: "Men are like steel: both are useless once they've lost their temper." Too lazy to look it up for attribution at the moment.

    It's a shame Guard and Reserve units don't foster more of a warrior ethos. I've been out of the military since 2003, but if I were still in, I would talk to people to promote both open and concealed carry, and more weapons familiarity.

    Be prepared. Be very prepared.

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    Shy Panda, I think I know how you feel. As someone who would like to work for in law enforcement in the near future, I worry about being contacted by police too often. I know that I am not committing any crime, but the background check is very thorough and the process is so highly competitive that I just worry even having my name run too many times could have a negative effect on my chances of being hired.

    Like Johnny Law mentioned a while ago (BTW, haven't heard from him hear in a while), his department sends an email with the names of all possible hires out to the officers for their input. It's this somewhat informal part of the process I would worry about.

  9. #9
    State Researcher Bill Starks's Avatar
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    thebastidge wrote:
    Somebody quoted something at me yesterday: "Men are like steel: both are useless once they've lost their temper." Too lazy to look it up for attribution at the moment.
    "Men are like steel. when they lose their temper, they lose their worth."
    - Chuck Norris

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    Regular Member Shy_Panda's Avatar
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    Two days of uneventful OC has brought my spirits back up, apparently I was jumping the gun a little. The fact that I was shaken like that with such little ease does worry substantially though. I guess that all it takes is more experience and confidence in my actions which is sad that I still don't have the level yet that I would have hoped.

  11. #11
    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    SP, don't worry about it. It really does come with time and experience. The more you talk about it with both OC'ers and non-OC'ers, the more prepared you'll be for dealing with authority-type figures.
    B.S. Chemistry UofWA '09
    KF7GEA

  12. #12
    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    just_a_car wrote:
    SP, don't worry about it. It really does come with time and experience. The more you talk about it with both OC'ers and non-OC'ers, the more prepared you'll be for dealing with authority-type figures.
    Right on.

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    I am also a reservist, and I was talking with my Corporal just this past weekend about OC'ing. He is a Sheriff Deputy (I don't remember which county but down near Ft. Lewis). He acknowledged that Open Carry is legal in this state and he even says he encourages people to do it because he knows it prevents crime.

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