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Thread: Pizza delivery man shot to death in Portsmouth

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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    10:03 AM EDT on Friday, May 2, 2008

    By 13News


    PORTSMOUTH -- Two teenagers are charged in the murder of a pizza delivery driver last month.
    Robert Edward Kiesewetter, 50, was shot around 11:00 p.m. on April 25 in the 5600 block of Craneybrook Lane. He was
    delivering for Papa John's.

    On Thursday, Jamal Lee Mingga, 18, and a 17-year-old were arrested and charged with first degree murder, robbery and use of a firearm.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm sick and tired of hearing about pizza deliverydrivers getting stabbed, shot, robbed, etc by armed thugs who don't care if the driver is only carrying $20. These guys order a pizza and wait for an unarmed target with cash to show up. At the risk of being fired, I CC'd at all times when I delivered pizza. I would think that somebody could write a law preserving both the rights of the drivers who want to carry and the rights of the pizza companies who don't want to be held accountable for the "rights" of the thugs who get shot while trying to rob their drivers. How about a "Don't ask, don't tell" law for armed delivery drivers? There has to be some common ground to meet on. There's thousands of smart lawyers out there. Too bad none of them deliver pizza to pay the bills, unlike 50-year old Robert Edward Kiesewetter.

    Just venting my .02

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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Thats why I carried when I delivered. They could fire me if I survived.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Story Link

    Another story about it

    And one other

    Interesting that none of the stories I can find mention for which company he was delivering. Wonder if this is another Pizza Hut driver and they are keeping it hush-hush after firing the guy earlier in the month for defending himself in a very similar situation.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    The guy mentiond in my original post delivered for Papa John's.

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    One tactic that might start to have a ripple affect is this. The next time you call for a home pizza delivery, go ahead and place the order then just before you close the deal, ask the pizza order taker if they allow their drivers to carry firearms to protect themselves. If they answer no and/or give some stupid and ridiculous reason why this is against company policy, cancel your order like this. "Well then, please cancel my order. I will not order a pizza from a company which cares so little about the safety of its employees. I will take my business elsewhere and suggest to my firends and neighbors that they do the same for the same reason."

    Then just drive to a local pizza place and order your pizza.. armed, of course.

    For those of you who live in western Prince William County or Fauquier County, consider Spitony's in New Baltimore. Or if you are up for the drive, head to Front Royal and hit Melting Pot Pizza. Absolutely the best you will find. Totally unique and worth the drive.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    So sad someones life is stolen over $20

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    I only order from Chanello's. As far as I know they have not fired anyone who has defended themselves with a firearm. I think this has a lot to do with Officer Steven Rutherford from the Newport News police department being killed while posing undercover as a Chanello's driver.

    http://www.odmp.org/officer/603-offi...ven-rutherford
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    mobeewan wrote:
    I only order from Chanello's. As far as I know they have not fired anyone who has defended themselves with a firearm. I think this has a lot to do with Officer Steven Rutherford from the Newport News police department being killed while posing undercover as a Chanello's driver.

    http://www.odmp.org/officer/603-offi...ven-rutherford
    Just spent an hour going over this site. It's interesting that all the officiers killed in Montgomery County (Blacksburg area) were killed with their or another officier's weapon. An officer in need is one of the reasons that caused me to decide to CC/OC.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    mobeewan wrote:
    I only order from Chanello's. As far as I know they have not fired anyone who has defended themselves with a firearm.
    I wonder if anywhere in this world there is a pizza company that encourages their delivery drivers to be protected. Can you imagine armored car companies (i.e. Brinks or Wells Fargo) telling their drivers that it was against company policy to carry a gun and that they would be subject to dismissal if they did?

    I googled this fom many aspects and came up empty.

    A pizza or twenty dollars may not be worth somebody's life but then again I'm not the one making the choice - if you pull a weapon on me, you demonstrate your opinion of the value of human life, both mine and your own.

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    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    vbnative73 wrote:
    10:03 AM EDT on Friday, May 2, 2008

    By 13News


    PORTSMOUTH -- Two teenagers are charged in the murder of a pizza delivery driver last month.
    Robert Edward Kiesewetter, 50, was shot around 11:00 p.m. on April 25 in the 5600 block of Craneybrook Lane. He was
    delivering for Papa John's.
    Link??

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    vbnative73 wrote:
    The guy mentiond in my original post delivered for Papa John's.
    Good God, I read right past that 3 times! Thanks!
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I've called Pizza Hut and told them I'm no longer eating at any Yum Brands establishments until they value their employees and customers more than they do the criminals trying to rob them. Once I mentioned the name of the employee fired in Iowa (James Spiers), it was obvious that the customer service rep had had training on this 'incident'. Must have been a lot of calls on this one....

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    Its getting pretty bad with employers and their employees safety.

    I declined a local cab driver job because there was a weapon ban on all drivers, not even a leatherman allowed.

    Too bad, $1500 - $3000 a week. Still would rather be armed.


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    hsmith wrote:
    So sad someones life is stolen over $20
    Ya... people will kill for far less.

    Some kill because you had far less than they expected to receive,

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    Quote Originally Posted by vbnative73 View Post
    10:03 AM EDT on Friday, May 2, 2008

    By 13News


    PORTSMOUTH -- Two teenagers are charged in the murder of a pizza delivery driver last month.
    Robert Edward Kiesewetter, 50, was shot around 11:00 p.m. on April 25 in the 5600 block of Craneybrook Lane. He was
    delivering for Papa John's.

    On Thursday, Jamal Lee Mingga, 18, and a 17-year-old were arrested and charged with first degree murder, robbery and use of a firearm.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm sick and tired of hearing about pizza deliverydrivers getting stabbed, shot, robbed, etc by armed thugs who don't care if the driver is only carrying $20. These guys order a pizza and wait for an unarmed target with cash to show up. At the risk of being fired, I CC'd at all times when I delivered pizza. I would think that somebody could write a law preserving both the rights of the drivers who want to carry and the rights of the pizza companies who don't want to be held accountable for the "rights" of the thugs who get shot while trying to rob their drivers. How about a "Don't ask, don't tell" law for armed delivery drivers? There has to be some common ground to meet on. There's thousands of smart lawyers out there. Too bad none of them deliver pizza to pay the bills, unlike 50-year old Robert Edward Kiesewetter.

    Just venting my .02
    I was the person who ordered the pizza and it still haunts me today knowing that there were thugs just hanging around. I heard 4 gunshots and called 911. I am an emt and my first instinct was to run to see if someone was hurt, but I am trained to wait until the scene is safe. The two guys who shot him were in a gang that was nearby. The detective on the case told us about them and how one of them said he was happy that he killed him. I am still so pissed and upset about this man lost his life and those piece of **** guys only got 25 years. He worked for Papa Johns and from what I read a wonderful man. I feel so truly sorry I couldn't have saved this man and that I ordered the pizza. I think EVERY person who does delivery should open carry. The risk is so high for this line of work and also for convenience store employees. My mom lost a best friend who worked at 7-11 in a robbery. My mother herself did payroll and one night a man had broken into her car and when she got in he held her at knife point trying to get money he thought she was going to make a deposit after work. She jumped out while the car was moving and the guy ran after the car ran into other parked cars. Please stay safe everyone.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Welcome to OCDO!

    While it is against the rules to advise breaking laws, company policy is a different story. A piece of advice that most of us give here for interactions with police is KYBMS(keep your big mouth shut). This advice sometimes should also apply to the work environment.
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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    and the point of your post 8 years after the fact?

    firemen are trained not to go into burning buildings ~ yet they do.

    nice LEs are trained to not endanger themselves in rescue situations ~ yet they do.

    EMTs are trained to save those citizen's injured, your agency's policies prohibit you from responding, not a legal standing ~ ...
    that you have guilt for not responding is something you must and need to reconcile either through counseling
    that you have guilt in your belief you set the death into motion by ordering a pizza is also something you need to reconcile either through counselling or ...

    Bad Guys were caught, tried, and sentenced by a jury of their peers...sorry you do not like the outcome of their sentence.

    please see my first sentence.

    ipse
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    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley9812 View Post
    I was the person who ordered the pizza and it still haunts me today knowing that there were thugs just hanging around. I heard 4 gunshots and called 911. I am an emt and my first instinct was to run to see if someone was hurt, but I am trained to wait until the scene is safe. The two guys who shot him were in a gang that was nearby. The detective on the case told us about them and how one of them said he was happy that he killed him. I am still so pissed and upset about this man lost his life and those piece of **** guys only got 25 years. He worked for Papa Johns and from what I read a wonderful man. I feel so truly sorry I couldn't have saved this man and that I ordered the pizza. I think EVERY person who does delivery should open carry. The risk is so high for this line of work and also for convenience store employees. My mom lost a best friend who worked at 7-11 in a robbery. My mother herself did payroll and one night a man had broken into her car and when she got in he held her at knife point trying to get money he thought she was going to make a deposit after work. She jumped out while the car was moving and the guy ran after the car ran into other parked cars. Please stay safe everyone.
    Thank you for joining and contributing with your side of the story. There can be no second guessing what anyone would do in that situation.

    In addition to the charges against the murderers, I hope there was a lawsuit against the pizza company's policy forcing their employees (who drive their own vehicles) to be unarmed, but I'll bet there wasn't.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley9812 View Post
    I was the person who ordered the pizza and it still haunts me today knowing that there were thugs just hanging around.
    Welcome to OCDO.

    Your perspective on this story is both heartbreaking and enlightening. It reminds me that the victims of criminal violence are often far more numerous than just those directly injured.

    Thank you.

    Charles
    All experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. Thank heaven we do not permit a few to impose anarchy.

    "With Anarchy as an aim and as a means, Communism becomes possible."
    --Marxist.org

    "Communism and Anarchy [are], a necessary complement to one another. "
    --PETER KROPOTKIN, "Anarchism: its philosophy and ideal." 1898.

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    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    and the point of your post 8 years after the fact?

    firemen are trained not to go into burning buildings ~ yet they do.

    nice LEs are trained to not endanger themselves in rescue situations ~ yet they do.

    EMTs are trained to save those citizen's injured, your agency's policies prohibit you from responding, not a legal standing ~ ...
    that you have guilt for not responding is something you must and need to reconcile either through counseling
    that you have guilt in your belief you set the death into motion by ordering a pizza is also something you need to reconcile either through counselling or ...

    Bad Guys were caught, tried, and sentenced by a jury of their peers...sorry you do not like the outcome of their sentence.

    please see my first sentence.

    ipse
    The point of your post is? I have been a fireman and EMT for forty years, I was also an instructor. Firefighters and EMTs are trained scene safety first. You are no help if you become part of the problem. Police are trained to run toward gun fire, not Firefighters or EMTs.
    Your comments were unnecessary and uncalled for!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
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  23. #23
    Activist Member Wolf_shadow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley9812 View Post
    I was the person who ordered the pizza and it still haunts me today knowing that there were thugs just hanging around. I heard 4 gunshots and called 911. I am an emt and my first instinct was to run to see if someone was hurt, but I am trained to wait until the scene is safe. The two guys who shot him were in a gang that was nearby. The detective on the case told us about them and how one of them said he was happy that he killed him. I am still so pissed and upset about this man lost his life and those piece of **** guys only got 25 years. He worked for Papa Johns and from what I read a wonderful man. I feel so truly sorry I couldn't have saved this man and that I ordered the pizza. I think EVERY person who does delivery should open carry. The risk is so high for this line of work and also for convenience store employees. My mom lost a best friend who worked at 7-11 in a robbery. My mother herself did payroll and one night a man had broken into her car and when she got in he held her at knife point trying to get money he thought she was going to make a deposit after work. She jumped out while the car was moving and the guy ran after the car ran into other parked cars. Please stay safe everyone.
    The outcome is not your fault! You did the right thing, running in before the scene was safe and possibly getting injured or worse wouldn't have helped.
    I agree 25 years for murder is not enough.

    Welcome to OCDO.
    Last edited by Wolf_shadow; 07-18-2016 at 07:28 PM.
    Yes I carry a Bible and a Gun, your point.
    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")
    Benjamin Franklin said, "A government that does not trust it's citizens with guns is a government that should not be trusted."



  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashley9812 View Post
    I was the person who ordered the pizza and it still haunts me today knowing that there were thugs just hanging around. I heard 4 gunshots and called 911. I am an emt and my first instinct was to run to see if someone was hurt, but I am trained to wait until the scene is safe. The two guys who shot him were in a gang that was nearby. The detective on the case told us about them and how one of them said he was happy that he killed him. I am still so pissed and upset about this man lost his life and those piece of **** guys only got 25 years. He worked for Papa Johns and from what I read a wonderful man. I feel so truly sorry I couldn't have saved this man and that I ordered the pizza. I think EVERY person who does delivery should open carry. The risk is so high for this line of work and also for convenience store employees. My mom lost a best friend who worked at 7-11 in a robbery. My mother herself did payroll and one night a man had broken into her car and when she got in he held her at knife point trying to get money he thought she was going to make a deposit after work. She jumped out while the car was moving and the guy ran after the car ran into other parked cars. Please stay safe everyone.
    Ashley sorry you have to live with that though, your order, could have saved him. It is a deep regret to think and dwell on something, I've been there. You live to get past it, stay safe.
    I hope you CC/OC, glad to have you on the forum.

  25. #25
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    and the point of your post 8 years after the fact?

    firemen are trained not to go into burning buildings ~ yet they do.

    nice LEs are trained to not endanger themselves in rescue situations ~ yet they do.

    EMTs are trained to save those citizen's injured, your agency's policies prohibit you from responding, not a legal standing ~ ...
    that you have guilt for not responding is something you must and need to reconcile either through counseling
    that you have guilt in your belief you set the death into motion by ordering a pizza is also something you need to reconcile either through counselling or ...

    Bad Guys were caught, tried, and sentenced by a jury of their peers...sorry you do not like the outcome of their sentence.

    please see my first sentence.

    ipse
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolf_shadow View Post
    The point of your post is? I have been a fireman and EMT for forty years, I was also an instructor. Firefighters and EMTs are trained scene safety first. You are no help if you become part of the problem. Police are trained to run toward gun fire, not Firefighters or EMTs.
    Your comments were unnecessary and uncalled for!

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk
    nowhere did i contradict your statement regarding agency's 'scene safety' POLICY!

    your comment about police are trained to run towards gunfire....really...if memory serves, the highest court has stated the nice LEs do not have to respond to citizens emergencies where would the opportunity manifest itself to run towards gunfire.

    since the OP claims (unverifiable after this amount of time) they ordered the pizza, i do not see any fire stations at 5600 Craneybrook Ln which means apparently the OP wasn't on duty so is now considered JQPublic functioning as a 'medically trained' good Samaritan role, which has no restrictions whatsoever on responding to those needing assistance~they didn't.

    now, my commentary regarding getting counseling to overcome their guilt is unnecessary? since it is not an anniversary of the event, apparently this event is causing some type of distress in the OP's life. therefore, the only way to overcome real or perceived guilt is to find professional assistance.

    sorry, might be blunt, but for this individual to move forward, they are going to have to come to grips with their action/lack therein to mitigate the ghosts who they believe are haunting them.

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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