MrBrooks908
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Can someone please help me understand whats the diff between the two..
Can someone please help me understand whats the diff between the two..
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What the dif betten OC and CCW??
- Thread starter MrBrooks908
- Start date
WARCHILD
Regular Member
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MrBrooks908 wrote:
Welcome to OCDO. TheOC stands for Open Carry of a handgun. CCW is Carrying Concealed Weapon. In Mich the CCW was revised to a CPL - Concealed Pistol License.
Sorry, too early, not enough coffee yet, hitting wrong keys. Mich's CCW, used to cover carrying any licensed weapon, hence concealed weapon. It was revised to CPL, to reflect it is a license to carry a concealed pistol only. Hope this helps you.
MrBrooks908 wrote:
Welcome to OCDO. TheOC stands for Open Carry of a handgun. CCW is Carrying Concealed Weapon. In Mich the CCW was revised to a CPL - Concealed Pistol License.
Sorry, too early, not enough coffee yet, hitting wrong keys. Mich's CCW, used to cover carrying any licensed weapon, hence concealed weapon. It was revised to CPL, to reflect it is a license to carry a concealed pistol only. Hope this helps you.
MrBrooks908
New member
imported post
ok what does it mean to open carry??
ok what does it mean to open carry??
WARCHILD
Regular Member
imported post
MrBrooks908 wrote:
MrBrooks908 wrote:
Open carry is wearing your gun in plain sight. On your hip, shoulder holster etc. If you don't have a CPL, your gun MUST be in plain sight at all times.
MrBrooks908
New member
imported post
whoa thats crazy ive never seen anyone OC where i live
whoa thats crazy ive never seen anyone OC where i live
WARCHILD
Regular Member
imported post
MrBrooks908 wrote:
MrBrooks908 wrote:
You don't have to be specific, what area are you in? I live in Owosso and have been oc ing for 4yrs now.
MrBrooks908
New member
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i'm in the ypsilanti/Ann Arbor Area
i'm in the ypsilanti/Ann Arbor Area
WARCHILD
Regular Member
imported post
MrBrooks908 wrote:
MrBrooks908 wrote:
I have oc'd near there in St Clair Shores,in my daughters neighborhood. No 911 calls that I'm aware of. Other than that, I've never carried in that area, not down that way very often.
MrBrooks908
New member
imported post
can it be loaded? and what happens when the cops are called?
can it be loaded? and what happens when the cops are called?
WARCHILD
Regular Member
imported post
MrBrooks908 wrote:
MrBrooks908 wrote:
Yes it can be loaded. As I tell people, doesn't do me much good empty. I would suggest you go through some of the postings on this Mich page and read some of the postings (we call them- threads ). There is a lot of good info and will cover a lot of questions you may have. I know it's a lot of reading but it's well worth it. As for dealing with the police (we call LEO- Law Enforcement Officer). Read my thread on 911 man with a gun, and Venator's oc at the capitol. It will give you an idea of what may happen. There are others as well. Give the site a look over and if you do have any questions, someone on the site will give you an answer.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
MrBrooks908 wrote:
I suggest you read many of the earlier post on this forum, all your questions on open carry will be answered. Below is more info on the subject. If you plan to carry in your area you can always send your Chief of police info on the subject.
[align=center]YOU CAN OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN [/b]MICHIGAN[/b]*[/b][/align]
[/b]
[/b]
[/b]
1) Any law abiding citizen of the State of [/b]Michigan[/b] who owns a safety inspected handgun may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all places not explicitly exempt by law with or without a CPL. Private property rules over-ride state law in regards to firearm possession. [/b]
MSP Legal Update Newsletter[/b]: April 2007: Did You Know: …It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol…...
PLACES off limits to firearms without a CPL: Sec. 234d[/b] (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank[/b]. b) A church[/b]. c) A court[/b]. d) A theatre[/b]. e) A sports arena.[/b] f) A day care center[/b]. g) A hospital[/b]. h) An establishment licensed under the [/b]Michigan[/b] liquor control act (BAR[/b]). (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
b) A peace officer.
c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.[/b]
d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. [/b]
2) If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law. [/b]
Michigan[/b] [/b]State Police Web Site[/b]. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle?
Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose[/b] if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’[/b] as: 1)[/b] While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2)[/b] While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3)[/b] While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4)[/b] While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5)[/b] While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6)[/b] While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. [/b]
[/b]
3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to [/b]Michigan[/b]’s preemption law.[/b]
[/b]
In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
THE [/b]MICHIGAN[/b] SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED[/b]: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.
Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.
MCRGO v. [/b]Ferndale[/b]: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.
[/b]
[/b]
4) Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm. [/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Though this section on disturbing the peace does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.
BRANDISHING[/b] Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: [/b]…In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish."[/b] This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the [/b]Michigan[/b] Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.[/b]
5) A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need not give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm. It is your option to provide ID/CPL. [/b]
[/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Each situation is different. We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests. Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained. If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained? If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employ.
[/b]
6) An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a person with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc. [/b]
Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.
“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”
Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, [/b]Michigan[/b] [/b]State[/b] Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441[/b]
“…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"[/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Before carrying a handgun we recommend that you become familiar with all state and federal laws in regards to firearm laws and the use of deadly force. Taking a self defense/firearm course is recommended. Michigan has a self defense act PA No. 309 July 18, 2006 that states you do not have to retreat from a threat, but the use of deadly force is still required.[/b]
*The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research on the subject of open carry in [/b]Michigan[/b]. You are responsible in determining the accuracy of any information listed above. If you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.[/b]
“The charge of every citizen of a free state is to be ever vigilante of the government’s role as their servant and not allow it to become their master.” Brian Jeffs, 2008
On common sense: Randy Wayne White wrote in his novel Captiva [/i]“It is a character standard from folklore in which “good old common sense” is an essential bedrock ingredient. But too often “common sense” is a safe harbor of ignorance and an excuse for intellectual laziness. They don’t need the facts because they already know the truth—their common sense has spared them the effort of investigation or thought.
MrBrooks908 wrote:
I suggest you read many of the earlier post on this forum, all your questions on open carry will be answered. Below is more info on the subject. If you plan to carry in your area you can always send your Chief of police info on the subject.
[align=center]YOU CAN OPENLY CARRY A HANDGUN IN [/b]MICHIGAN[/b]*[/b][/align]
[/b]
[/b]
[/b]
1) Any law abiding citizen of the State of [/b]Michigan[/b] who owns a safety inspected handgun may openly carry (in a holster) said firearm in all places not explicitly exempt by law with or without a CPL. Private property rules over-ride state law in regards to firearm possession. [/b]
MSP Legal Update Newsletter[/b]: April 2007: Did You Know: …It is not illegal under Michigan law to openly carry a pistol…...
PLACES off limits to firearms without a CPL: Sec. 234d[/b] (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following: a) A Bank[/b]. b) A church[/b]. c) A court[/b]. d) A theatre[/b]. e) A sports arena.[/b] f) A day care center[/b]. g) A hospital[/b]. h) An establishment licensed under the [/b]Michigan[/b] liquor control act (BAR[/b]). (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
b) A peace officer.
c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.[/b]
d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. [/b]
2) If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law. [/b]
Michigan[/b] [/b]State Police Web Site[/b]. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle?
Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose[/b] if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’[/b] as: 1)[/b] While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area. 2)[/b] While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair. 3)[/b] While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business. 4)[/b] While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol. 5)[/b] While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale. 6)[/b] While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted. 7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. [/b]
[/b]
3) No local ordinance concerning firearm possession is enforceable due to [/b]Michigan[/b]’s preemption law.[/b]
[/b]
In 1990, the Michigan legislature enacted MCL 123.1102 which provides, in pertinent part: A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.
THE [/b]MICHIGAN[/b] SUPREME COURT CONCLUDED[/b]: April 29, 2003 9:10 am. v No. 242237 In sum, we conclude that § 1102 is a statute that specifically imposes a prohibition on local units of government from enacting and enforcing any ordinances or regulations pertaining to the transportation and possession of firearms, and thus preempts any ordinance or regulation of a local unit of government concerning these areas.
Further, we conclude that the specific language of the 2000 amendments to MCL 28.421 et seq., particularly §§ 5c and 5o, which were adopted more than a decade after the enactment of § 1102, do not repeal § 1102 or otherwise reopen this area to local regulation of the carrying of firearms.17 Accordingly, we hold that the Ferndale ordinance is preempted by state law and, consequently, we reverse.
MCRGO v. [/b]Ferndale[/b]: The Michigan Court of Appeals held that local units of government may not impose restrictions upon firearms possession.
[/b]
[/b]
4) Brandishing and disturbing the peace are not an offense while lawfully openly carrying a firearm. [/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Though this section on disturbing the peace does not deal with firearms, due to the nature of this code, this law has been cited by officers to suppress or discourage lawful open carry. Since a person who is not licensed to carry concealed MUST open carry their firearms on foot in order to avoid criminal charge, nor is there any duty for anyone licensed to conceal their handgun, open carry is not disorderly conduct. The open carrying of firearms is not by itself threatening, nor does it cause a hazardous or physically offensive condition.
BRANDISHING[/b] Opinion No. 7101 February 6, 2002: [/b]…In the absence of any reported Michigan appellate court decisions defining "brandishing," it is appropriate to rely upon dictionary definitions…..the term brandishing is defined as: "1. To wave or flourish menacingly, as a weapon. 2. To display ostentatiously. A menacing or defiant wave or flourish."[/b] This definition comports with the meaning ascribed to this term by courts of other jurisdictions…the court recognized that in federal sentencing guidelines, "brandishing" a weapon is defined to mean "that the weapon was pointed or waved about, or displayed in a threatening manner." Applying these definitions to your question, it is clear that a reserve police officer, regardless whether he or she qualifies as a "peace officer," when carrying a handgun in a holster in plain view, is not waving or displaying the firearm in a threatening manner. Thus, such conduct does not constitute brandishing a firearm in violation of section 234e of the Michigan Penal Code. It is my opinion, therefore, that…by carrying a handgun in a holster that is in plain view, does not violate section 234e of the [/b]Michigan[/b] Penal Code, which prohibits brandishing a firearm in public.[/b]
5) A person openly carrying a firearm on foot in a legal manner when approached by a police officer and questioned where the only reason for the questioning is because of the openly carried firearm need not give that officer their name and address. No license or ID is required to openly carry a firearm. It is your option to provide ID/CPL. [/b]
[/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Each situation is different. We recommend you cooperate with all lawful questions and requests. Ask the officer if the reason you are being detained is for the legal open carry of a firearm. After giving your name and address, ask if you are free to go, ask if you are being detained. If they continue to ask questions about ID and why you are carrying a gun, repeat the question, am I free to go? Am I being detained? If the situation escalates ask for a supervisor. Remember the officer can arrest you for anything, don’t resist the arrest. After an illegal arrest you may have legal options you can employ.
[/b]
6) An AG opinion, the MSP and Senator Prusi stated that a person with a CPL can carry a firearm openly in the exempted areas listed in MCL 750.234d. For example, with permission from the owner you can openly carry a handgun in a bar, sports arena, etc. [/b]
Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.
“Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”
Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, [/b]Michigan[/b] [/b]State[/b] Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441[/b]
“…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"[/b]
ADVISORY NOTE[/b]: Before carrying a handgun we recommend that you become familiar with all state and federal laws in regards to firearm laws and the use of deadly force. Taking a self defense/firearm course is recommended. Michigan has a self defense act PA No. 309 July 18, 2006 that states you do not have to retreat from a threat, but the use of deadly force is still required.[/b]
*The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research on the subject of open carry in [/b]Michigan[/b]. You are responsible in determining the accuracy of any information listed above. If you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.[/b]
“The charge of every citizen of a free state is to be ever vigilante of the government’s role as their servant and not allow it to become their master.” Brian Jeffs, 2008
On common sense: Randy Wayne White wrote in his novel Captiva [/i]“It is a character standard from folklore in which “good old common sense” is an essential bedrock ingredient. But too often “common sense” is a safe harbor of ignorance and an excuse for intellectual laziness. They don’t need the facts because they already know the truth—their common sense has spared them the effort of investigation or thought.
MrBrooks908
New member
imported post
ok thanks for alll your help guys..
ok thanks for alll your help guys..