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Thread: OHSU psychiatrist to highlight warning signs for school shootings

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    There have been at least a dozen school shootings in American schools and universities within the past three years, resulting in the deaths of more than 50 students. In 1998 Oregon’s Thurston High School in Springfield was the scene of a school shooting in which two students were killed and 25 others wounded.

    Block’s presentation will be mainly based on his extensive research of the 1999 Columbine high school shootings, which resulted in the deaths of 15 people, including the two students who initiated the attack, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. Based on diaries and police records, Block authored a July 2007 article for the American Journal of Forensic Psychiatry titled “Lessons from Columbine: Virtual and Real Rage.” Block will also briefly discuss the role of technology in the Red Lake (2005), Virginia Tech (2007), Jokela High School (2007), and North Illinois (2008) school shootings.

    The paper on Columbine examines the many factors that may have influenced the shooters and specifically highlights the role that technology played in the tragedy. Prior to the shootings, both teenagers spent a significant amount of time playing first-person-shooter computer games and creating game levels for others to use. In his paper, Block suggests that these virtual worlds became essential for the teens. Block notes that Harris and Klebold may have been unable to distinguish the boundaries between their virtual lives and their real lives, in effect mixing the two.

    “Virtual realities, like the ones that Harris and Klebold experienced, are a double-edged sword,” explained Block, a clinical faculty member in the OHSU Department of Psychiatry. “On one hand, virtual worlds allow people to feel connected and empowered. They also allow participants to escape stress and have an outlet for aggression. On the other hand, when a heavy user must eliminate or cut back on the virtual, as was the case with these two killers at times, the user can feel lonely, anxious, or angry. In some ways, virtual reality is similar to alcohol. In moderation it can be healthy or even helpful. In excess it can be destructive and isolating. And, when a person goes 'dry,' the situation can turn dangerous.”

    During the APA meeting, two other experts will join Dr. Block in presenting information about school shootings. Katherine Newman, the Malcolm Forbes Class of 1941 Professor of Sociology and Public Affairs from Princeton University, will speak about the communities where school shootings occur and whether we can predict and prevent these tragedies. FBI Special Agent Terri Royster will discuss the FBI’s procedure for assessing school shooting threats.

    This is the second presentation within the past three months in which Block has commented on a psychiatric issue with widespread public impacts. In March 2008 Block’s editorial on the widespread problem of Internet addiction received international media attention.

    Source: Oregon Health & Science University

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    I don't know whether this deserves a



    or a








    Still trying to get that crystal ball to work, I guess.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    It will be interesting to see the findings and conclusions.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Sometimes I wish I could be in high school now, knowing what I do know now. That way I could defend myself when theyarrest me attempted possible shooting of the school. I mean common, my friends and I made a level for our favorite 1st person shooted that was the layout of the high school. It would have been big enough to have 16 players and no on e could complain about not knowing what the level looked like.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    The real problem is not how much kids play 1st person shooters. I started shooting uner my grandfather's mentorshipwhen I was 4 years old and my nephew uder mine at 7. My nephew and I regulary shoot and play video games together and neither of usare inclinded to pick up a real weapon and go out on a shooting spree.

    The real fault lies with parents not mentoring and teaching their children what is right and what is wrong. We as a society and parents in general, have surrendered our responsibility to discipline our children and have allowed leftist liberals to dictate to us how best to show our children the proper way to live their lives and become productive members of society.

    This type of murderous behavior is a direct product of the leftist liberal mentality that a parent should negotiate with and not disipline his or her child.

    IMHO, this doctor's findings will simply find the internet and video games the culprit and will not address the real issue: NOT BEING A RESPONSIBLE PARENT!


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    ODA 226 wrote:
    The real problem is not how much kids play 1st person shooters. I started shooting uner my grandfather's mentorshipwhen I was 4 years old and my nephew uder mine at 7. My nephew and I regulary shoot and play video games together and neither of usare inclinded to pick up a real weapon and go out on a shooting spree.

    The real fault lies with parents not mentoring and teaching their children what is right and what is wrong. We as a society and parents in general, have surrendered our responsibility to discipline our children and have allowed leftist liberals to dictate to us how best to show our children the proper way to live their lives and become productive members of society.

    This type of murderous behavior is a direct product of the leftist liberal mentality that a parent should negotiate with and not disipline his or her child.

    IMHO, this doctor's findings will simply find the internet and video games the culprit and will not address the real issue: NOT BEING A RESPONSIBLE PARENT!
    Yup, yup. I played first/third person shooters all the time... Grand Theft Auto was a favorite. Yet I never thought of shooting up a school. I guess something's wrong with me.

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    SNIP IMHO, this doctor's findings will simply find the internet and video games the culprit and will not address the real issue.
    That's for sure.

    He didn't mention anywhere how to help a troubled teen erase his negative impulses. He didn't mention how to successfully treat the troubled youth and cure him of murderous rage once he's located and "in the system."

    Its just "study" and "what to look for" and that sort of thing. Essentially, he's an actuary compiling stats offacts and circumstances preceeding events.

    If his so-called profession is competent, how come criminals don't get cured of their criminality? Many are repeat offenders. That institutions have permanent inmates and criminality exists to the extent that it does in our society are the most visible indicators that he and histribe are

    Quacks.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

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    The key to a simple solution is the fact that these games are on line. The gub'mit will obviously have to make all internet use dependant on RealID login so they can track who's is accumulating a potentially dangerous amount of time so that if they attempt to go cold turkey they can be segregated and treated with extra hugs in a safe environment. If financial reasons (can't afford the cable bill) cause the dangerous drop-off they can get a gub'mit grant to get them back on ine. Parents who punish children by cuttting off access will be arrested for reckless endangerment.
    [img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img]

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    Jim675 wrote:
    The key to a simple solution is the fact that these games are on line. The gub'mit will obviously have to make all internet use dependant on RealID login so they can track who's is accumulating a potentially dangerous amount of time so that if they attempt to go cold turkey they can be segregated and treated with extra hugs in a safe environment. If financial reasons (can't afford the cable bill) cause the dangerous drop-off they can get a gub'mit grant to get them back on ine. Parents who punish children by cuttting off access will be arrested for reckless endangerment.
    [img]chrome://piclens/content/launch.png[/img]
    Boy, I thought I was suspicious of government.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Does YOUR high school or college age child play hours of first person shooter games?

    It may be a precursor to a violent shooting on your local school campus.


    :quirky

    Yes, it was the violent video games..
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    I guess Charles Witmann was playing pinball machines too much huh? Can pinball make you violent? OH NOES.....

    Had it been a few years later, we could blame Pong for his violent rampage!



    Sorry to say it but all these psychotherapists and shrinks are way off base. I doubt even 1 of them has ever had the multi disorder that leads to such a conclusion. We are talking a mixture of depression and rage, with some sociopathy thrown in, but it is very hard to define it and say it is always a certain disorder or mixture of them. I did see one analysis that was hitting the nail on the head- it was printed in Newsweek after VA Tech. Sharon Begley..."Mass killers tend to be aggrieved, hurt, clinically depressed, socially isolated, and above all, paranoid. They believe the world is against them."

    Now one could say that aside from the paranoia part that those with Aspergers syndrome would be likley canidates- unable to interact properly in social situations, generally anti social, lack of empathy for those they do not know, get bullied, are "nerdy" but get b's and c's as grades, get depression problems, are obsessive about things, are homebodies with their own worlds to delve into,and would certainlyget mad at people rejecting them all the time. However I may be a moderate Aspergers myself and experienced all that crap in childhood and still do in adulthood ( I communicate very well online becauseI don't have to see your faces! ButI tend totype stupid things without realizing it, then get horribly embarrassed and obsessed over it). I do have broader empathy though. Heck my telling you this is likley a social faux pas...

    But am I murdering people? Likely MOST "Aspies" would never think to do such things, maybe play pranks for attention, but not shoot their schools up! More likley to find an Aspie kid at home reading a book about the Roman Empire or taking radios apart, than wanting to shoot people.

    So it goes right back to- there is no way to tell who might or who might not shoot a school up. People get screwed up in the brain and get violent, wether they have stupid parents or not. Though the part about parents not teaching the kid right from wrong with a spanking hand, may indeed be apart of the problem.

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    XD40coyote wrote:
    I guess Charles Witmann was playing pinball machines too much huh? Can pinball make you violent? OH NOES.....

    Had it been a few years later, we could blame Pong for his violent rampage!

    *

    Sorry to say it but all these psychotherapists and shrinks are way off base. I doubt even 1 of them has ever had the multi disorder that leads to such a conclusion. We are talking a mixture of depression and rage, with some sociopathy thrown in, but it is very hard to define it and say it is always a certain disorder or mixture of them. I did see one analysis that was hitting the nail on the head- it was printed in Newsweek after VA Tech. Sharon Begley..."Mass killers tend to be aggrieved, hurt, clinically depressed, socially isolated, and above all, paranoid. They believe the world is against them."

    Now one could say that aside from the paranoia part that those with Aspergers syndrome would be likley canidates- unable to interact properly in social situations, generally anti social, lack of empathy for those they do not know, get bullied, are "nerdy" but get b's and c's as grades, get depression problems, are obsessive about things, are homebodies with their own worlds to delve into,*and would certainly*get mad at people rejecting them all the time. However I may be a moderate Aspergers myself and* experienced all that crap in childhood and still do in adulthood ( I communicate very well online because*I don't have to see your faces! But*I tend to*type stupid things without realizing it, then get horribly embarrassed and obsessed over it). I do have broader empathy though. Heck my telling you this is likley a social faux pas...

    But am I murdering people? Likely MOST "Aspies" would never think to do such things, maybe play pranks for attention, but not shoot their schools up! More likley to find an Aspie kid at home reading a book about the Roman Empire or taking radios apart, than wanting to shoot people.

    So it goes right back to- there is no way to tell who might or who might not shoot a school up. People get screwed up in the brain and get violent, wether they have stupid parents or not. Though the part about parents not teaching the kid right from wrong with a spanking hand, may indeed be apart of the problem.

    I was the biggest geek in high school... always the 'quiet guy in the corner' reading or doing research online, I just soaked up information like a sponge... Used to be socially inept, ostracized from most groups, and a complete loner..

    You don't see me walking around with a ....

    Oh, wait... nevermind... yeah ya do..

    :celebrate

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote: I agree with the study. However, neither do guns or any other inanimate object. So what do you say does cause them?
    Peace through superior firepower

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    COmputer games are really dangerous. To be safe we must regulate computer games.We should only permit federally licensed dealers to sell computer games. The unregulated practice of downloading games must stop. CLOSE the INTERNET LOOPHOLE!
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

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    Yeah Aspergers geeks are too damned intelligent and have too much common sense to commit such crimes, plus might get stage fright standing in front of all those people and looking at them to aim the gun LOL.However some Aspies play incredible pranks or do other mischief and never get caught! Being as I was a girl, I never did anything worst than removing some sand from sandbags behind a stage. And yeah another kid caught me making little sand piles and I was soooo embarassed I never did it again. My worst prank was fake dog doo on my parents bed and my mom thought it was real. Ok, there might be more thingsI did, I will have to muse over this! ( silly pranking and acting rediculous are 2 attributes of Trickster Coyote, themythos of which I am so drawn to)

    I think my dad has mild to moderate Aspergers too, and as a kid he once accidently burned an oldlumber yard down- was never caught. Boys do tend to do goofier things than girls...( he also dug foxholes in his yard and stuck boards over them to hide in them- then this friend of his was suddenly no longer allowed to play with him). Oh and I hardly think my dad is going to go on a shooting rampage either...

    BTWI think Cho may have had Aspergers, but he had a deluge of other things wrong with him. He seemed to be having delusions of other personalities for one- personas of Question Mark and Ishmael Ax. Combine with depression, extreme inner rage,sociopathy/no empathy even for himself , Korean culture issues, etc...

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    Flintlock wrote:
    PT111 wrote: I agree with the study. However, neither do guns or any other inanimate object. So what do you say does cause them?
    The media.

    I'm of the "risk versus reward" balance for crime. People commit crimes because the perceived benefit outweighs the consequences. Well, aside from crimes of passion. Someone doesn't rob a bank because there is something wrong with them... they just see the financial reward as being larger than the risk of going to jail, and the moral downfall of using the threat of force against others illegitimately.

    So, going back to my first statement, the media's sensationalization of mass shootings feeds them. Where otherwise, someone who is unhappy with life would off himself by flinging himself into a gorge, or in some other quiet manner, a legacy beyond death is a nice bonus. It's a way to "leave a mark" that they otherwise would not have been able to do. The media, and also in a large way the mindless sh**ple who worship it, cause the mass killings because they enshrine said shooters in a parade of infamy.

    To stop them, the media needs to stop sensationalizing the shooters. Don't post pictures of the shooters, don't even mention their names. We also don't need to hear the weeping and "I never thought it could happen" of every single person who knew someone who knew someone who was a distant relative of someone who saw the shooting. Not that the media will ever do this, but it's a nice wish.

    So, realistically, we just need to make sure that the mass shooters wind up with .44 magnums in what used to be their heads. Then A) the mass shooters won't have such grand body counts as they do now... 1 or 2 students is a lot less "impressive" than 32; B) there will be a degree of humiliation in that the would-be mass shooter is cut down like a weed in what he hoped would be his 15 minutes of fame; and C) the probable target of all the media attention will be that of the kind soul who cleansed the world of said mass shooter... surely the mass shooter wouldn't want to give up his fame to a law-abiding citizen. But until we start forcing colleges (at least the public ones) to allow students to carry on campus, we'll be resigned to watching the sh**ple lap up the media reports of the latest, coolest mass murder.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    In March 2008 Block’s editorial on the widespread problem of Internet addiction received international media attention.
    As a student of psychology, this makes me skeptical of his agenda. It indicates a "medical model" approach to mental health which is not uncommon among psychiatrists. It also indicates more of a sociological perspective than psychological. All of this would cause me to scrutinize his findings and methodology very carefully (but not to dismiss it out of hand).

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    Flintlock wrote:
    PT111 wrote: I agree with the study. However, neither do guns or any other inanimate object. So what do you say does cause them?
    I think there are a lot of factors including genetics. Some people are just born mean to mean parents and will be inand out oftrouble all their life. As someone else pointed out the media plays a big role in that most want attention.

    When you add outside factors in along with violent video games then some, not all or the majority or even a high percentage want to graduate from video games to real life. I can see how in some people that playing video games where there is no penalty for failure except having to hit the reset button could effect their thinking.

    I always thought that the A-Team was the worst show ever for children. There is a gun fight with 10,000 bullets fired, 5 vehicles turned over three times each and 17 people involved but everyone walks away without a scratch. That isn't real life and a child can easily thinkwhen cars turn over the people just walk away. Maybe every story having a happy ending isn't a good idea. My 6 year old cousin broke his arm jumping off the fence playing Superman. My nephew broke his jaw in three places after his brothe put the sleeper hold on him and let him fall.

    Video games, TV and the news all play a role but no single factor is to blame. But in my experience it sure seems that genetics plays more of a role than any other single factor and parenting much less that it seems on the surface.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    PT111, you have certainly hit on a long and oft debated question in the developmental and psychological fields. The nature v nurture debate goes back to antiquity in various forms. I think the only sure thing we can say is that both genetics and environment play a role in making a human being what s/he is, but the degree of each is heavily debated in many circles.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    deepdiver, I have three children and I could tell the differences in their personalities when they were only hours old. Nurure certainly plays a strong part but I have seen too many where it was nature that ruled in my opinion. I absolutely believe that some people are just born evil and no amount of nurture and good parenting is ever going to change them. I know that is not PC but I have seen it happen between brothers.

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    PT111 wrote:
    SNIP I absolutely believe that some people are just born evil and no amount of nurture and good parenting is ever going to change them.
    +1
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    deepdiver wrote:
    SNIP I think the only sure thing we can say is that both genetics and environment play a role in making a human being what s/he is, but the degree of each is heavily debated in many circles.
    I'm only continuing the discussion because I consider the fields of psychology and psychiatry dangerous to rights, including gun rights.

    Not questioning you, DeepDiver; just the doctrine itself and the people who teach this stuff to our youth.

    Genetics and environment play a role? So, I guess people are really just animals? Maybe a little more sophisticated, maybe a little more complex, but still animals?

    Does the debate not include what else might play a role? Whether that something else plays a stronger role? Of course not. If it did, they'd look like idiots for spending their time researching thelesser roles rather than the strongerones.

    What is meant by "role" anyway? Its a deliciously vague word. Is it like "link," another vague word that oft repeated begins to mean "causes?"

    Theseideas are dangerous. They're de-humanizing. If you're just so much chemistry, you don't really deserve any rights. No more than a rock or a plant. Rightsbecome just quaint ideas to keep all the "animals" happy. So,the problem becomes not protecting their rights, but how to keep them happy while you take their rights away.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    PT111 wrote:
    deepdiver, I have three children and I could tell the differences in their personalities when they were only hours old. Nurure certainly plays a strong part but I have seen too many where it was nature that ruled in my opinion. I absolutely believe that some people are just born evil and no amount of nurture and good parenting is ever going to change them. I know that is not PC but I have seen it happen between brothers.
    I can't say that I agree with that. I believe there is good in all people and saying thatbeing born with whatever issue is just an excuse for wrongdoing. Granted, there have been some issues where pregnant mothers smoked crack and drank, etc. during pregnancy and that caused some issues at birth, but how many murders or evil acts canwe attribute to this discussionthat are "caused" by those actions of the mother?

    Now there have been studies and documentation that suggests that people with frontal lobe damage (the decision making side of the brain) are much more susceptible to commit wrongdoing than others and that childhood environment, broken up families, drugs,etc... all play a majorrole in upbringing. Kids that are injured, dropped, beat, etc. can receive this damage and lots of problems may occurr.

    Butto say that people are just plain born to commit evil is a bit of a reach, IMO.
    Peace through superior firepower

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    Citizen wrote:
    deepdiver wrote:
    SNIP I think the only sure thing we can say is that both genetics and environment play a role in making a human being what s/he is, but the degree of each is heavily debated in many circles.
    I'm only continuing the discussion because I consider the fields of psychology and psychiatry dangerous to rights, including gun rights.

    Not questioning you, DeepDiver; just the doctrine itself and the people who teach this stuff to our youth.

    Genetics and environment play a role? So, I guess people are really just animals? Maybe a little more sophisticated, maybe a little more complex, but still animals?

    Does the debate not include what else might play a role? Whether that something else plays a stronger role? Of course not. If it did, they'd look like idiots for spending their time researching thelesser roles rather than the strongerones.

    What is meant by "role" anyway? Its a deliciously vague word. Is it like "link," another vague word that oft repeated begins to mean "causes?"

    Theseideas are dangerous. They're de-humanizing. If you're just so much chemistry, you don't really deserve any rights. No more than a rock or a plant. Rightsbecome just quaint ideas to keep all the "animals" happy. So,the problem becomes not protecting their rights, but how to keep them happy while you take their rights away.
    So, now, look at children who have been locked up in a room by themselves since birth, or children raised in the wild, and tell me that there isn't a huge environmental role in the development of people. Genetics provide the psychological processes that allow children to learn and develop, and introduce some predispositions into how that person will develop. The point is... people are who the world made them, and my heathen science proves this fairly well.

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