New to OCing

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Hello, I've been reading this forum to get a knowledge of OC. You all seem pretty darn knowledgable about the entire thing. I started thinking about OCing when my daughter was born just over three weeks ago and have since decided to OC myself. This website has been the best resource for information on the subject as there definitely is a lack of knowledge on the subject. This site is literally the only place that i've found any definitive information. Everywhere else is all just opinion and conflicting at best. I OCed for the first time today and nobody bothered me. I'm 19 years old and carry a Smith and Wesson Model 10 in .38 spcl. I have a random brand leather high ride holster for it. Just though I would introduce myself and thank everybody for helping in making the decision to OC. Thanks.

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GOOD for you :celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

Just make sure it is utah unloaded (no round in topchamber and no round in next to fire chamber), avoid school zones, and keep it visible (careful with coats and keep it in plain sight in a car)

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Welcome to the site. Glad to hear that you busted your cherry without any incidents. May all of your future outings be the same.

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Welcome! Congratulations on making a wise decision.

BTW, you might want to consider getting a concealed carry permit from Maine. They issue, by mail, to anyone over 18 that passes their simple requirements, and of course Utah honors all permits. That would make you legal to conceal in Utah, when necessary, but more importantly it would enable you to OC fully-loaded.

The Maine permit requires an education class, but it doesn't have to be a Maine class. You can take a Utah CFP class and use the document the instructor gives you as proof of education. The Utah CFP class is a good idea if you're going to carry anyway, because it will help you understand the use of force laws, etc. Hopefully b1ack5mith (who just did this, at age 19) will chime in here with details on the Maine permit process.

Again, welcome!

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thx997303 wrote:

Hello, I've been reading this forum to get a knowledge of OC. You all seem pretty darn knowledgable about the entire thing. I started thinking about OCing when my daughter was born just over three weeks ago and have since decided to OC myself. This website has been the best resource for information on the subject as there definitely is a lack of knowledge on the subject. This site is literally the only place that i've found any definitive information. Everywhere else is all just opinion and conflicting at best. I OCed for the first time today and nobody bothered me. I'm 19 years old and carry a Smith and Wesson Model 10 in .38 spcl. I have a random brand leather high ride holster for it. Just though I would introduce myself and thank everybody for helping in making the decision to OC. Thanks.

PVT McDonald

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Welcome thx997303,

hope to see you, your wife and the little one at our OC Meet on the 14 @7 Pm. Location is Golden Corral @ 7200 South and 665 East.

TJ

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swillden wrote:

Welcome! Congratulations on making a wise decision.

BTW, you might want to consider getting a concealed carry permit from Maine. They issue, by mail, to anyone over 18 that passes their simple requirements, and of course Utah honors all permits. That would make you legal to conceal in Utah, when necessary, but more importantly it would enable you to OC fully-loaded.

The Maine permit requires an education class, but it doesn't have to be a Maine class. You can take a Utah CFP class and use the document the instructor gives you as proof of education. The Utah CFP class is a good idea if you're going to carry anyway, because it will help you understand the use of force laws, etc. Hopefully b1ack5mith (who just did this, at age 19) will chime in here with details on the Maine permit process.

Again, welcome!

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I agree. Get a permit from Maine until you are 21 and can get a Utah permit. RockNSnow got his too I believe - he could be of assistance in addition to b1ack5mith.

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I think I may be able to make it to that meeting. I'll sure try. I think that I'm going to get that permit from maine. Always great to be able to do things legally. The best way. So I can just take a Utah CC course and it will work for Maine? Thanks for the help.

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thx997303 wrote:

I think I may be able to make it to that meeting. I'll sure try. I think that I'm going to get that permit from maine. Always great to be able to do things legally. The best way. So I can just take a Utah CC course and it will work for Maine?

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Keep in mind that you can (and should!) be completely legal even without the Maine permit. It just means you have to OC, not CC, your gun must be "Utah-unloaded", and you must stay away from school zones. With or without the permit, please make sure that you are completely legal.

As to your question, hopefully one of the guys that's done it will speak up, but Maine's published information on the process, and the application for a non-resident permit are here. It looks to me like all you need is the filled-out application, a copy of your birth certificate, the signed form from your CFP instructor, two passport photos and $60. Send it all off and a wait a month or two for your permit to come back.

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Good for you, hope to see/hear from you.

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Welcome aboard! Great place with even greater people right here.

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Has anybody verified that Utah will indeed accept a Maine permit for a person under 21? I ask because I seem to remember reading that somebody asked the AG or his office and there was some question as to whether or not it was legal.

If it is legal, would a High School senior be protected against mandatory expulsion if caught carrying to class???

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althor wrote:

Has anybody verified that Utah will indeed accept a Maine permit for a person under 21? I ask because I seem to remember reading that somebody asked the AG or his office and there was some question as to whether or not it was legal.

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The law is quite clear on the subject. I don't know how anyone could dispute it.

76-10-523. Persons exempt from weapons laws.

(1) This part and Title 53, Chapter 5, Part 7, Concealed Weapon Act, do not apply to any of the following:
(a) a United States marshal;
(b) a federal official required to carry a firearm;
(c) a peace officer of this or any other jurisdiction;
(d) a law enforcement official as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(e) a judge as defined and qualified under Section 53-5-711;
(f) a common carrier while engaged in the regular and ordinary transport of firearms as merchandise; or
(g) a nonresident traveling in or through the state, provided that any firearm is:
(i) unloaded; and
(ii) securely encased as defined in Section 76-10-501.
(2) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1)(a), (1)(b), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to any person to whom a permit to carry a concealed firearm has been issued:
(a) pursuant to Section 53-5-704; or
(b) by another state or county.

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So, if some state or county issues a permit to carry a concealed firearm, then it's legal.

althor wrote:

If it is legal, would a High School senior be protected against mandatory expulsion if caught carrying to class???

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LOL. Good point. Yes, indeed, I think that any school that tried to expel an 18 year-old with a concealed carry permit would find their decision pre-empted by state law. The ban on school carry is in 76-10-505, which doesn't apply to permit holders.

As far as I can tell, the school couldn't even prohibit an 18 year-old permit-holder from OC'ing in high school. I hope nobody does it, though. The negative publicity would be overwhelming, even if the student was valedictorian, captain of the football team, seminary president and devoted his spare time to reading to children with cancer.

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swillden wrote:

althor wrote:

Has anybody verified that Utah will indeed accept a Maine permit for a person under 21? I ask because I seem to remember reading that somebody asked the AG or his office and there was some question as to whether or not it was legal.

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The law is quite clear on the subject. I don't know how anyone could dispute it.

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Yet laws, however clear they may be, are disputed all the time. How long has there been confusion and disagreement regarding OC in Utah among leos and legislators? The law is clear but some people still refuse to see.

That being said, I can't seem to find it but I'm sure I saw a posting where somebodyclaimed to have asked either the BCI or the AG's office this question and the answer was not clear cut.

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althor wrote:

swillden wrote:

althor wrote:

Has anybody verified that Utah will indeed accept a Maine permit for a person under 21? I ask because I seem to remember reading that somebody asked the AG or his office and there was some question as to whether or not it was legal.

Click to expand...

The law is quite clear on the subject. I don't know how anyone could dispute it.

Click to expand...

Yet laws, however clear they may be, are disputed all the time. How long has there been confusion and disagreement regarding OC in Utah among leos and legislators? The law is clear but some people still refuse to see.

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That's a different situation entirely, IMO. To understand why OC is legal, it's not enough to look at the text of the law, because the text of the law doesn't say anything about OC. To understand why it's legal, you also have to understand the basic principle that the law is restrictive, not permissive. That is, unless the law imposes a specific prohibition or requirement, we're free to do what we want. OC is legal because it is not illegal. it also requires, essentially, that the entire contents of the state code be reviewed to verify that it's not made illegal by some paragraph somewhere.

That's not a hard thing to understand or verify, but it is much fuzzier than this case. In this case there's a specific passage that clearly states that the prohibitions on concealed carry, loaded carry and carry in schools do not apply to an individual with a concealed carry permit issued by any state or county. This specific passage is the SAME ONE that makes the relevant exceptions for Utah state CFP holders, so if they're inapplicable to permits from other states, they're inapplicable to Utah CFP holders as well. The only thing you could even try to argue is that the permit issued by Maine isn't, somehow, a "permit to carry a concealed weapon", but Maine would disagree. Strongly.

Note that the language doesn't say anything about permit holders being exempted from other state or federal weapons' laws, such as the requirement to be 18 years of age to possess a handgun, the prohibition on posession by felons, etc., so those still apply, regardless of permit status.

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Welcome thx997303, and congrats on the decision.

I, too, am 19, and have recently begun to carry.

The Maine CFP is a good idea, which was given to me by rocknsnow and b1ack5mith. You may have problems finding classes (several places that I have gone to have said that you must be 21 to take the CFP course,) but I am taking the course at Rangemasters on Saturday May 31.

Here is a link to the Maine Application - http://mainegov-images.informe.org/dps/msp/licenses/non-resident application package.pdf


the class is $60, and you must register in person.