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Thread: Denver OC ???

  1. #1
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    I spoke yesterday on behalf of SGTJensen with CBI and an agent by the name of Joan, I believe. And she stated that Denver DOES NOT EMBRACE CCW so therefore you HAVE TO OC:what:. Magine that, get arrested 'cause you CCW WITH A PERMIT to do so.

    Any thoughts ???

    Please call CBI @ 303-239-4235



    TJ

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    Denver has no choice but to embrace it. CC with a permit is explicitly legal throughout Colorado while OC is implicitly legal throughout Colorado, with the exception of Denver. I've also run this by a friend of mine who is a State Patrol Corporal.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I spoke yesterday on behalf of SGTJensen with CBI and an agent by the name of Joan, I believe. And she stated that Denver DOES NOT EMBRACE CCW so therefore you HAVE TO OC:what:. Magine that, get arrested 'cause you CCW WITH A PERMIT to do so.

    Any thoughts ???
    No - thisis backwards - Denver bans OC, upheld by Colo. S. Ct. 3-3.

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    I'll better call again and talk to another Agent there. I had a feelin something was off. I'll be back for an update later tonight.

    I'll see if they can either sent me some info or direct me to some info on the web.

    Thanks guys

    TJ

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    The Meyer decision http://rmgo.org/alerts/2004-denverruling.htmcontains all relevant information. You will see that Denver can prohibit OC, but all state laws concerning CC pre-empt any Denver ordinance.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I spoke yesterday on behalf of SGTJensen with CBI and an agent by the name of Joan, I believe. And she stated that Denver DOES NOT EMBRACE CCW so therefore you HAVE TO OC:what:. Magine that, get arrested 'cause you CCW WITH A PERMIT to do so.

    Any thoughts ???

    Please call CBI @ 303-239-4235



    TJ
    Just the opposite. CO state law is full preemption. State law covers Denver, so CC with a permit is 100% legal. They ban OC through a grandfathered home rule law in Denver County, Denver. OC is not illegal in CO, but not specifically permitted by statute. CC is protected by statute and no city/county/town can interfere with the statutory governance of CCW.
    "For any man who sheds his blood with me this day shall be my brother...And gentlemen now abed shall think themselves accursed, they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whilst any speaks who fought with us on Crispin's day." Henry V

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    And if you do plan to OC, Denver county is quite large so you may want to take a close look at a map before heading out.

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    Naaaaahh, ain't that big....LOL

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    Evil Ernie wrote:
    Naaaaahh, ain't that big....LOL
    It's big enough, and oddly shaped to boot. I have found the only good way to remember where I have to conceal to remember a rough border along major landmarks. I end up concealing where I could be carrying openly, but there is just no way to remember exact borders.

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    Fortunately for me I live on the north side of denver, so as long as I don't go southeast of 52nd and Sheridan I'm safe. the borders up here are pretty straight, farther south however yikes.

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    There is an area on the west side of town that is Denver but it is in pieces so we have to be careful. Like Grant Ranch is Denver but the county starts on the east side of the Camden Lakeway apartments so if I leave my apartment OC and go east Im breaking the law but if I go west Im legal. All of the retail stores on the west side of Wadswoth from W. Quincy to Cross Dr. is Denver. South of W. Quincy from Wadsworth to Kipling and the north side of Belleview is Denver. I had to know this because when I was looking for an apartment over here I had to make sure I wasn't in Denver I am a coyote hunter and use a AR-15 which is a banned gun in the city and county of Denver.

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    I've got a nice detailed map of denver county in pdf form, its ~10mb if anyone wants I can email you a copy



    -Brian

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    forum wrote:
    I've got a nice detailed map of denver county in pdf form, its ~10mb if anyone wants I can email you a copy



    -Brian
    That would be great. I've been using Google Earth and my GPS mapping software, but a PDF might be easier to print and keep with me.

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    I love visiting your beautiful state and was very disapointed with the 3-3 supreme court decision that got rid of open carry and "assult weapons" in denver. And now being from Illinois which doesnt issue a concealed carry license (so I have out of state permits), CO wont recongnize non resident permits. Has the make up of the court changed at all, so they can finally settle the issue with a clear decision in our favor? It would be nice if someone challenged the law change on not honoring non resident permits too. This is all just wishful thinking on my part. Maybe if heller comes down in our favor, a federal court would over turn denvers ban on "assult weapons." So I guess I was just wondering if there was any progress being made to take back the ground that we lost in the past couple of years?

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    The decision was 3-3 because the newly appointed 7th member, Justice Allison Eid had been arguing the case on behalf of the state when she was appointed to the bench. She properly recused herself and by law the tie results in an affirmation of the lower court's ruling. All things being equal, if the case came before the court again they would likely rule against Denver, but the court might not grant another hearing of the case so soon after the original because of the principal of Stare decisis (essentially settled law). The Meyer decision is referenced above by Anubis. The appeal is here: http://www.courts.state.co.us/supct/...6and05SA22.pdf

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    Johnyt101 wrote:
    Maybe if heller comes down in our favor, a federal court would over turn denvers ban on "assult weapons."
    That would be nice. SCOTUSblog mentioned that Scalia is writing an opinion for Heller now (remaining 3 cases, including Heller, to be issued tomorrow). If he's writing a majority opinion, that would be most excellent; if he's writing a plurality opinion, it could be dicey.

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    So lets just say the CO supreme court heard the case today, they would most likely rule against denver becasuse the new justice that excused herself used to argue for the state against denver. Esentially it would be a 4-3 ruling in our favor. So now we just have to wait a few years when the time is right to re-challenge denver. So there still might be hope that one day CO will regain its Gold Star Status?

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    Regular Member Anubis's Avatar
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    Remember, the original suit occured when Denver sued the state over the new state laws passed in 2003. Both contenders had plenty of lawyers and funds for legal warfare. The Meyer decision itself was a partial victory for both the state and Denver---neither side got all it wanted. I think it unlikely that either entity would start another round of litigation over the same issues.

    I doubt alsoif any private citizen would go after Denver over OC now. However, if the Heller decision is an unequivocal best-possible victory for 2A seen our way , someone might be encouraged to fight it again.

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    Anubis wrote:
    I think it unlikely that either entity would start another round of litigation over the same issues.
    I concur with Anubis. Both the State and Denver probably consider the matter settled. The only realistic way to overturn that decision anytime soon would be to pass another law at the State level effecting preemption or another gun law in conflict with the decision. Or you could always have another municipality sue the State to try and get the same exemption that Denver has. Either way, you'd want to get the Supreme's to decide the issue on the merits rather than reviewing whether the case was properly decided based on the previous decision. Ultimately it would be up to them to decide how they wanted to proceed.

    Perhaps Heller will be so sweeping that it would be easy to challenge the Meyer decision in Federal Court. Having listened to the verbal arguments in Heller, Scalia seems to think that ANY blanket prohibition on a class of firearms, perhaps with the exception of machine guns, is unconstitutional. That could give cause to challenge Denver on so-called "Saturday Night Specials" and on the AW ban, effecting a review of the entire case. I'm not holding my breath though. I think the ruling will be positive, but limited and will still give lower courts and legislatures room to tailor the law to their needs.

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    By now we all have seen that Heller was affirmed by the Supremes. (Odd how Heller was affirmed in DC Circuit court by 1 vote and later in the Supreme Court by 1 vote.)

    The wording in the majority opinion found that the second amendment guarantees "the individual the right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation".

    I see this as abasis for a future challenge to the Denver OC prohibition. If someone does not have a CWP,he should still be able to bear arms for self defense and the only legal way would then be OC. Any volunteers for the test case?

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    Due to my circumstances, I would probably be a good candidate. I will not be able to petition for a CCW until 2012 and I'm going to have to open carry exclusively until then. That should be interesting enough as I live in the Vail/Beaver Creek area. Won't be able to start until January but when I do, I'll keep you all posted.

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    Perhaps it would be wise to wait until challenges are filed in other places like San Francisco and Chicago. If handgun bans in those cities are struck down citing the Heller decision, then the decision has some weight at the state level. Then a move could be made to challenge OC restrictions. Maybe in light of an almost certain defeat, Denver would change it's ordinances voluntarily, without anyone having to go to jail. We must all remember that those of us who choose to challenge a law, however unjust we think it is, must be prepared to face the consequences.

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    Brass wrote:
    Due to my circumstances, I would probably be a good candidate. I will not be able to petition for a CCW until 2012 and I'm going to have to open carry exclusively until then. That should be interesting enough as I live in the Vail/Beaver Creek area. Won't be able to start until January but when I do, I'll keep you all posted.
    The only legal trouble you will step into for OCing is in Denver. OC is OK everywhere else, except for public places posted "no OC" at all entrances or merchants' "no carry" signs.

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    Although I would not make a good candidate (I'm too pretty for jail), I do havea friend(?) that is a freakin dipstick...legal, but needs to go away cuz he annoys me at work...heh...

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    I would love to get a copy of that map. Denver is a pretty big town and I lived there most of my years, but the county lines get confusing.

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