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Press-checks
- Thread starter Bravo_Sierra
- Start date
Liko81
Founder's Club Member
imported post
BobCav wrote:
Mechanical devices can fail. The loaded chamber indicator can break and not show when the chamber is loaded, or, more likely, it can stick or jam and show loaded when it isn't.The only way to KNOW there is or is not a cartridge in the chamber is to open and lock the slide, eject the mag, and inspect the chamber visually and by feel.
You are right in that the chances of a loaded chamber indicator showing not loaded when in fact it is are a rounding error; it is FAR more likely that the indicator will show loaded for some reason when it is not,including a jam or an FTC leaving empty brass in the chamber.
I do not do press checks on my 9mm. It's a TDA that can only be safed when hammer-down, and pulling the slide enough to separate the barrel requires more force than any other point in the slide's travel so if I'm not extremely careful a press-check generally ends up racking the slide. I do have a visual cue; the gun's design and tolerances are such that there is a small gap between the chamber and breechblock. I can look through that gap and see that there is a brass or silver casing in the gun, or that there is no casing.
My .22 on the other hand is a hammerless SAO (Buckmark). If the gun is cocked, it is easy to pull the slide back enough for visual confirmation, without ejecting or chambering. If the gun is not cocked, I can pull the trigger all I want; the gun will not fire, and I must rack the slide to cock it. I also have the gun cocked whether or not the chamber is hot or a mag is in place. So, a press-check is actually pretty much required with that gun.
BobCav wrote:
Mechanical devices can fail. The loaded chamber indicator can break and not show when the chamber is loaded, or, more likely, it can stick or jam and show loaded when it isn't.The only way to KNOW there is or is not a cartridge in the chamber is to open and lock the slide, eject the mag, and inspect the chamber visually and by feel.
You are right in that the chances of a loaded chamber indicator showing not loaded when in fact it is are a rounding error; it is FAR more likely that the indicator will show loaded for some reason when it is not,including a jam or an FTC leaving empty brass in the chamber.
I do not do press checks on my 9mm. It's a TDA that can only be safed when hammer-down, and pulling the slide enough to separate the barrel requires more force than any other point in the slide's travel so if I'm not extremely careful a press-check generally ends up racking the slide. I do have a visual cue; the gun's design and tolerances are such that there is a small gap between the chamber and breechblock. I can look through that gap and see that there is a brass or silver casing in the gun, or that there is no casing.
My .22 on the other hand is a hammerless SAO (Buckmark). If the gun is cocked, it is easy to pull the slide back enough for visual confirmation, without ejecting or chambering. If the gun is not cocked, I can pull the trigger all I want; the gun will not fire, and I must rack the slide to cock it. I also have the gun cocked whether or not the chamber is hot or a mag is in place. So, a press-check is actually pretty much required with that gun.
BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
PT111 wrote:
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/01/deputy-accidentally-shoots-wife.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=138885
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=145094
PT111 wrote:
Haven't found that yet. A few people have speculated that with that few rounds in the magazine it sounds like a Makarov thatare known to get stuck firing pins when not properly cleaned.
http://xavierthoughts.blogspot.com/2006/01/deputy-accidentally-shoots-wife.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=138885
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=145094
BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Liko81 wrote:
The othe failures you mentioned would be during firing when the LCI is pretty useless anyway. Some Ruger P345's have gunked up LCI's that remain stick in the up "Loaded" position, but the design won't affect firing at all.
So if it fails up and is basically useless, you would rightly assume the gun was loaded as you should always do anyway. If I cleared it and the indicator stayed up, I'd know something was amiss and it was cleaning time anyway.
Bottom line - know your gun!
Liko81 wrote:
I hear ya, but I think the chances of the LCI failing are slim and if it did, I'd catch it becauseI clean and cycle itwhen I"TICL" my gun. Teardown, Inspect, Clean and Lube.
The othe failures you mentioned would be during firing when the LCI is pretty useless anyway. Some Ruger P345's have gunked up LCI's that remain stick in the up "Loaded" position, but the design won't affect firing at all.
So if it fails up and is basically useless, you would rightly assume the gun was loaded as you should always do anyway. If I cleared it and the indicator stayed up, I'd know something was amiss and it was cleaning time anyway.
Bottom line - know your gun!
Bravo_Sierra
Regular Member
imported post
I don't think you guys understand what a propper press-check is. I don't mean to press the f-ing trigger...
I don't think you guys understand what a propper press-check is. I don't mean to press the f-ing trigger...
BobCav
Founder's Club Member
imported post
Bravo_Sierra wrote:
Bravo_Sierra wrote:
Who are you referrring to? I've said nothing about pressing any trigger and I do know, Ijust don't use it, like it or need to.
tarzan1888
Regular Member
imported post
Pointman wrote:
Thank You!
Call me ROOB or the turnip that fell off the truck, but I read the whole first page of posts, all the time saying to my self, "Self, what the _____ is a press check?"
I have done that on occasion, when my 1911 just didn't sound right when I hit the slide release, and it went chink instead of kerchunk, but not as a general rule. I always top off my tank, as in I insert the magazine, rack the slide and then top off the magazine so that I an fully loaded. If I can't put in another round, I know that I don't have one in the chamber.
Tarzan
Pointman wrote:
Thank You!
Call me ROOB or the turnip that fell off the truck, but I read the whole first page of posts, all the time saying to my self, "Self, what the _____ is a press check?"
I have done that on occasion, when my 1911 just didn't sound right when I hit the slide release, and it went chink instead of kerchunk, but not as a general rule. I always top off my tank, as in I insert the magazine, rack the slide and then top off the magazine so that I an fully loaded. If I can't put in another round, I know that I don't have one in the chamber.
Tarzan
Fallschirjmäger
Active member
imported post
Bravo_Sierra wrote:
It should come as no great surprise to anyone that different companies, different areas, and different companies may use differing nomenclature for what is essentially the same thing.
For example.... in the UK it's a lorry, in the USA it's a truck
Up Nawth they call it a hoagie, but in Nawlins they call it a po-boy
When I repaired computers for a living, IBM charged big dollars for an "Air Movement Device" that the rest of us would have just called a little muffin fan.
The US Marine Corps wears blouses whereas the rest of make do with a plain old shirt.
In the Army, you wear low quarters -
Which, as you can see are entirely different than wearing a pair of Oxfords -
I hope you'll see my reply in the humorous manner it was intended.
ps.... Is that big ol' shelf and the serrations on top of this slide stop
there so that it's easier to lock the slide back??
Bravo_Sierra wrote:
Now that is exceedingly odd, because page 12 of my H&K Owner's Manual clearly says "Slide Release". Did they recently get bought out by SIG? I was sure they were an independant company, but I guess it's a common misconception.
It should come as no great surprise to anyone that different companies, different areas, and different companies may use differing nomenclature for what is essentially the same thing.
For example.... in the UK it's a lorry, in the USA it's a truck
Up Nawth they call it a hoagie, but in Nawlins they call it a po-boy
When I repaired computers for a living, IBM charged big dollars for an "Air Movement Device" that the rest of us would have just called a little muffin fan.
The US Marine Corps wears blouses whereas the rest of make do with a plain old shirt.
In the Army, you wear low quarters -
I hope you'll see my reply in the humorous manner it was intended.
ps.... Is that big ol' shelf and the serrations on top of this slide stop
DocNTexas
Regular Member
imported post
Bravo_Sierra wrote:
Bravo Sierra,
Actually, the terms "slide stop", "slide lock" and "slide release" are all used interchangeably by the industry. The actual terms "slide lock' and "slide stop"are the portion of the system/lever responsible for actually engaging and holding the slide in an open position. The "slide release" is the portion of the system/lever responsible for releasing the slide stop/lock after it is engaged.
In short, if your weapon has a "slide stop", it also has a "slide release" or you could not release the locked slide after the slide stop is engaged.
Since most semi-automatic handguns have a single lever system, this single lever contains both the slide stop/lock and the slide release and can accurately be called either one.
Doc
Bravo_Sierra wrote:
Bravo Sierra,
Actually, the terms "slide stop", "slide lock" and "slide release" are all used interchangeably by the industry. The actual terms "slide lock' and "slide stop"are the portion of the system/lever responsible for actually engaging and holding the slide in an open position. The "slide release" is the portion of the system/lever responsible for releasing the slide stop/lock after it is engaged.
In short, if your weapon has a "slide stop", it also has a "slide release" or you could not release the locked slide after the slide stop is engaged.
Since most semi-automatic handguns have a single lever system, this single lever contains both the slide stop/lock and the slide release and can accurately be called either one.
Doc
bayboy42
Regular Member
imported post
Agent19 wrote:
Agent19 wrote:
Depends on which generation Glock he carries. This has not always been a feature of Glock pistols. I believe the feature was added in the 2002 time frame/mid production of 3rd Generation Glocks.Bravo_Sierra wrote:QFT.
GLOCK ADVANTAGE, pg 9
LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR
The user has always been able to read important parameters off his GLOCK pistol at a glance.
Trigger forward = safety activated.
Trigger pulled = safety deactivated.
The pistol also shows the user whether a cartridge is in the barrel or not. The extractor also serve as a loaded chamber indicator on all GLOCK pistols – and this entirely without additional components. Visual and palpable extractor edge.
Figure top = unloaded.
Figure bottom = loaded
[align=right]
[/align]
nh92d
Regular Member
imported post
BobCav wrote:
BobCav wrote:
same here.i can tell if loaded/unloaded by simple feel of the finger tip..
deepdiver
Campaign Veteran
imported post
I don't press check daily, but I do with some regularity if I have been dry firing recently with snap caps, I have been to the range, or if people have been in my house unsupervised. I not only press check,but also afterward, verify the magazine by dropping it, glancing to verify the top round is a SD rnd, then reload.
Dry firing - I could have accidently left a snap cap in the chamber or the snap cap mag in the pistol
People in the house - while I would never expect anyone who would be in any area of my house unsupervised (close friends, family, fiancee) to touch my pistols (and if it were not someone close they would not be allowed anywhere a pistol would be accessible) just as a standard precaution I always verify my load.
Range - All of my range ammo is brass and my self-defense ammo is I guess steel (silver casing). If I forgot to reload w/ self-defense ammo, the color of the casing will immediately notify me of that fact (or I can quickliy determine at the range if I am fixin' to shoot off about $15 worth of SD ammo instead of $2.50 worth of range ammo).
After reading about press-checking online following this thread I think the even more interesting question is how people perform press-checks. The only times I heard the term were in my CC class and then this thread. There appears to be a great deal of different ways this is performed and it seems from reading about it on a variety of other forums, "press-check" as a term really applies primarily to full size 1911s and that "pressing" doesn't apply to most other pistols, but the purpose of the action is obviously the same regardless.
Here's what I do:
XD: If the backstrap safety is not disengaged you can only pull the slide open just far enough to see into the chamber and all passive safeties remain engaged to prevent AD. Therefore, I hold the pistol in my strong hand as normally as possible, finger down the slide, but with the web of my hand below the backstrap safety, and then with my left hand fingers gripping the cutouts on the front of the slide (careful to keep my fingers from being in front of the muzzle) I partially rack the slide to see the casing. It doesn't open far enough for me to fit one of my fingers in there, but as it has a LCI I am primarily verifying what round is in it rather than is it loaded at all. Oh, and I NEVER rely on the LCI visually. I always press it to make sure that it isn't flipped up for any reason other than a rnd in the chamber.
SIG P228: No LCI. I grip it normally excepting that I lay 2 fingers along the slide. I cock the pistol (modern Sigs have a firing pin block deactivated by the trigger bar so unless the trigger is pulled, even if the hammer slips and falls, it cannot discharge) partially rack the slide as I would to safe it, and look in the ejection port. In low light, with 2 fingers along the slide, I can maintain a pretty much normal grip on the pistol while using my pointer finger to feel in the chamber while my middle finger remains along the slide.
As both of my primary carry pistols are 4" barrels with the muzzle end of the slide nearly flush with the frame, a traditional press-check (thumb through the front of the trigger guard, finger on the bottom of the slide and squeeze) isn't effective.
I don't press check daily, but I do with some regularity if I have been dry firing recently with snap caps, I have been to the range, or if people have been in my house unsupervised. I not only press check,but also afterward, verify the magazine by dropping it, glancing to verify the top round is a SD rnd, then reload.
Dry firing - I could have accidently left a snap cap in the chamber or the snap cap mag in the pistol
People in the house - while I would never expect anyone who would be in any area of my house unsupervised (close friends, family, fiancee) to touch my pistols (and if it were not someone close they would not be allowed anywhere a pistol would be accessible) just as a standard precaution I always verify my load.
Range - All of my range ammo is brass and my self-defense ammo is I guess steel (silver casing). If I forgot to reload w/ self-defense ammo, the color of the casing will immediately notify me of that fact (or I can quickliy determine at the range if I am fixin' to shoot off about $15 worth of SD ammo instead of $2.50 worth of range ammo).
After reading about press-checking online following this thread I think the even more interesting question is how people perform press-checks. The only times I heard the term were in my CC class and then this thread. There appears to be a great deal of different ways this is performed and it seems from reading about it on a variety of other forums, "press-check" as a term really applies primarily to full size 1911s and that "pressing" doesn't apply to most other pistols, but the purpose of the action is obviously the same regardless.
Here's what I do:
XD: If the backstrap safety is not disengaged you can only pull the slide open just far enough to see into the chamber and all passive safeties remain engaged to prevent AD. Therefore, I hold the pistol in my strong hand as normally as possible, finger down the slide, but with the web of my hand below the backstrap safety, and then with my left hand fingers gripping the cutouts on the front of the slide (careful to keep my fingers from being in front of the muzzle) I partially rack the slide to see the casing. It doesn't open far enough for me to fit one of my fingers in there, but as it has a LCI I am primarily verifying what round is in it rather than is it loaded at all. Oh, and I NEVER rely on the LCI visually. I always press it to make sure that it isn't flipped up for any reason other than a rnd in the chamber.
SIG P228: No LCI. I grip it normally excepting that I lay 2 fingers along the slide. I cock the pistol (modern Sigs have a firing pin block deactivated by the trigger bar so unless the trigger is pulled, even if the hammer slips and falls, it cannot discharge) partially rack the slide as I would to safe it, and look in the ejection port. In low light, with 2 fingers along the slide, I can maintain a pretty much normal grip on the pistol while using my pointer finger to feel in the chamber while my middle finger remains along the slide.
As both of my primary carry pistols are 4" barrels with the muzzle end of the slide nearly flush with the frame, a traditional press-check (thumb through the front of the trigger guard, finger on the bottom of the slide and squeeze) isn't effective.
DocNTexas
Regular Member
imported post
bayboy42 wrote:
Actually, the only change Glock made at that time was to add a paint mark to the top of the extractor to make it more visible. My first Gen Glocks have extractors with the same dimensionsand it is readily visible that they are loaded by the position of the extractor. At least on mine this is true.
Doc
bayboy42 wrote:
Agent19 wrote:Depends on which generation Glock he carries. This has not always been a feature of Glock pistols. I believe the feature was added in the 2002 time frame/mid production of 3rd Generation Glocks.Bravo_Sierra wrote:QFT.
GLOCK ADVANTAGE, pg 9
LOADED CHAMBER INDICATOR
The user has always been able to read important parameters off his GLOCK pistol at a glance.
Trigger forward = safety activated.
Trigger pulled = safety deactivated.
The pistol also shows the user whether a cartridge is in the barrel or not. The extractor also serve as a loaded chamber indicator on all GLOCK pistols – and this entirely without additional components. Visual and palpable extractor edge.
Figure top = unloaded.
Figure bottom = loaded
[align=right]
[/align]
Actually, the only change Glock made at that time was to add a paint mark to the top of the extractor to make it more visible. My first Gen Glocks have extractors with the same dimensionsand it is readily visible that they are loaded by the position of the extractor. At least on mine this is true.
Doc
imported post
I'd never heard the term "press check" before. All my pieces have either a red loaded chamber indicator, or a hole you can see the rim of the brass through, or the extractor claw bugs out when one is chambered... something that renders manual checking unnecessary in any case. I do manually check all "unloaded" guns at work when showing them though.
-ljp
I'd never heard the term "press check" before. All my pieces have either a red loaded chamber indicator, or a hole you can see the rim of the brass through, or the extractor claw bugs out when one is chambered... something that renders manual checking unnecessary in any case. I do manually check all "unloaded" guns at work when showing them though.
-ljp
Kivuli
Regular Member
imported post
My USP doesn't have a LCI (just the .45, not the tactical or elite). When I need to check the weapon I perform a weapon clear on it and then re-load it if necessary. I didn't even know what a press check was until this thread.
My USP doesn't have a LCI (just the .45, not the tactical or elite). When I need to check the weapon I perform a weapon clear on it and then re-load it if necessary. I didn't even know what a press check was until this thread.
Tomahawk
Regular Member
imported post
Pointman wrote:
Pointman wrote:
I have never heard the term press-check before, but from what you're describing it sounds more like a "pull-check".
Felid`Maximus
Activist Member
imported post
My main weapon is a revolver. Its simple, all you have to do is look at it.
Of course, all guns in my house are always considered loaded for safety purposes.Many of them actually are loaded and ready to go. If I had another one of the guns in my hand and I had even the slightest worry that the chamber was empty, I'd chamber a new round. Some of the guns in my house have LCI, and some don't, but I usually don't think of it anyway. When I do, I don't worry that the LCI is lying to me.
My main weapon is a revolver. Its simple, all you have to do is look at it.
Of course, all guns in my house are always considered loaded for safety purposes.Many of them actually are loaded and ready to go. If I had another one of the guns in my hand and I had even the slightest worry that the chamber was empty, I'd chamber a new round. Some of the guns in my house have LCI, and some don't, but I usually don't think of it anyway. When I do, I don't worry that the LCI is lying to me.