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Thread: At gun point December 6th, 2007

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    Ok here we go,

    On the morning of december6th, 2007 at about 10:30,I was walking around the block for some exercise. My block is a regtangular shape and I live in the northwest corner lot of the block. Anyways, I was walking counter clockwise around it. As I approached the northeast corner there was a fellow serving what seemed to be a summons.

    He was discretly goggling:what:me (), and I thought to myself -"Here we go".

    I was just walking as if nothing have happened. As I circled the block, I was now at the southeast corner of the block and saw the person driving east and turned back going west on the cross street down-a-ways. Of course to see where I was.

    As I came to the NE corner I saw him sitting with the butt of the car towards me and front facing 3600 W. As I turned the NW corner I waived at him and thought to myself -"Give it 60-90 sec and I will have a cruiser behind me".

    AsI was about 3/2 down the street I hearda vehicle stopping behind me and I heard something to the effect -"Put your hands in the air and don't touch the gun". I saw that this was a Granite School District Officer with his gun drawn RIGHT AT ME, I could pretty much see the bullet in his plastic gun (glock). I asked -"What's wrong?". He responded -"You have a gun". I said -"So???" (I wish I could have been fast enough to say -"I see you have one too)

    He further instructed me -"Don't touch the gun or I will kill you". -"Get on the ground"

    Knowing that I had done NOTHING wrong and didn't feel like I wanted to get shoot,complied and put my hat on the ground and spread eagle.

    By this time a West Valley City female officer arrived to the scene and said -"You can't do that!!!", I asked -"Do what???" She replied -"You can't carry a gun like that. I've been a officer for 22 YEARS and I know that you can't do that". I kindly asked her -"Tell which law I am breaking?".

    By this time she was all over me cuffing me up (Kinda sexy being cuffed up for the 1st time and by a FEMALE officer:celebrate), and I said that my wallet is in the rear left pocket she took it and tossed it so that another officer could check my info. As I saw the officer struggling a little bit I told him which way would be easiest to get my info out and also said that my CFP is right under it. He thanked me and got it out.

    The female officer which was still on top of me trying to cuff me had to use 2 sets of cuffs told me -"We'll figure it out".

    As I was cuffed up and "secured" she tried to get my Kimber out, and I am still to this very day chuckle a little bit when I think about it. She was yanking and tugging on it and couldn't get it out. You guessed it...,SERPA .

    I told her that it's a Serpa holster, a retention holster, you have to push the little button to get it out. And you guessed it again -"We'll figure it out". There was a male officer that seemed to be familiar with the kind of holster that I was carrying 'cuz he went straight to help her out.

    The female officer was still on me about OCing and how I can't do that. Bla, bla, bla. I just asked her -"Tell me WHICH law I am breaking?". She told the closest officer this guy is UNREASONABLE and I can't take this anymore, and walked away.

    As I was standing up,there was a neighbor that came out and said -"I know that guy he lives down the corner. He is good guy. Leave him alone".

    She was adviced to stay away. (Could've been another Danbus, but WITHOUT the gun:shock

    Isn't that great when neighbors tells the cops to leave me alone:celebrate

    As I was standing there, I saw a whole bunch of cops on the scene, I believe about 8 including a Senior Detective.

    1 officer was standing next to me and said that I was close to a school, I just replied that I was WELL outside the 1000 feet by federal law if I didn't have a permit. And to get him the "fuzzies" I told him that I understand that he and the other officers are here due the fact that they are a GENERAL PUBLIC DETERENT and they are just doing their job, protecting the Public.

    As I was watching the rest of the officers huddling together trying to do get me for something,the female officer shook her head in dislike and said something to the effect -"I don't like that"

    They had just been told that I had done NOTHING WRONG.

    What an opportunity to have both Rookies AND 22 year veterans with the PD be educated right on the street that there was NOTHING they could do just because I simply carrieda firearm on my hip.

    When they were done a Sergeant came back with my gun and I was uncuffed. He said something to the effect that this will probably happen everytime. He handed me my gun.I stopped and said -"Sir, please put it in the holster for me". He looked at me a little bit shoked and said -"You not gonna load it?" I kindly responded -"Are you crazy? With all these officers here and YOU want me to load my gun infront of you??? NOT A CHANCE !!!"

    He put my gun in the Serpa and handed my my mags and on my way I went.

    TJ

    (This is the rough story )

    This of course is past days since they now approach in a more friendly manner.

    Awesome OC experience @ the Local Albertsons




  2. #2
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    I always love to hear this story again, way to go TJ.

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    It's good to know they have wised-up a bit.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    They had just been told that I had done NOTHING WRONG.
    Ya know, I just read this like three times, and that line made me chuckle every time.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    He further instructed me -"Don't touch the gun or I will kill you". -"Get on the ground"

    By this time a West Valley City female officer arrived to the scene and said -"You can't do that!!!", I asked -"Do what???" She replied -"You can't carry a gun like that. I've been a officer for 22 YEARS and I know that you can't do that". I kindly asked her -"Tell which law I am breaking?".

    By this time she was all over me cuffing me up (Kinda sexy being cuffed up for
    The female officer which was still on top of me trying to cuff me had to use 2 sets of cuffs told me -"We'll figure it out".


    The female officer was still on me about OCing and how I can't do that. Bla, bla, bla. I just asked her -"Tell me WHICH law I am breaking?". She told the closest officer this guy is UNREASONABLE and I can't take this anymore, and walked away.
    Isn't that great when neighbors tells the cops to leave me alone:celebrate

    As I was standing there, I saw a whole bunch of cops on the scene, I believe about 8 including a Senior Detective.

    1 officer was standing next to me and said that I was close to a school, I just replied that I was WELL outside the 1000 feet by federal law if I didn't have a permit. And to get him the "fuzzies" I told him that I understand that he and the other officers are here due the fact that they are a GENERAL PUBLIC DETERENT and they are just doing their job, protecting the Public.

    As I was watching the rest of the officers huddling together trying to do get me for something,the female officer shook her head in dislike and said something to the effect -"I don't like that"

    They had just been told that I had done NOTHING WRONG.
    The guy threatened to kill you! Wow TJ.. And this lady cop that wanted to pass onher personal opinion into law was something special...Did you end up making any complaints or anything like thatlater on?
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  6. #6
    Regular Member colormered's Avatar
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    When they were done a Sergeant came back with my gun and I was uncuffed. He said something to the effect that this will probably happen everytime.
    Not that it would necessarily be the MOST appropriate response, but I would have probably replied something like, "NEXT time I won't resist the urge to file a lawsuit, because now you KNOW better."

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    I think this is a great example to show how far the movement has come in a very short time. Look at TJ's recent experience at Albertson's! We must be doing something right. I'll bet when West Valley cops get a "man with a gun" call they ask "is he dressed like a cowboy? is the gun in the holster? Is the guy friendly and outgoing? --- It's just TJ..."

    Since this experience just a few months ago, agencies all over the state have educated their officers, the Attorney General has voiced his support, police chiefs and politicians have come down firmly on our side. Not saying we don't still have a lot of work to do, but we are certainly off to a great start!

    Keep up the good work!

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    colormered wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    When they were done a Sergeant came back with my gun and I was uncuffed. He said something to the effect that this will probably happen everytime.
    Not that it would necessarily be the MOST appropriate response, but I would have probably replied something like, "NEXT time I won't resist the urge to file a lawsuit, because now you KNOW better."
    Maybe not such a bad thing to say, especially if phrased as a polite question, like: "You really think this will happen a lot? Hmmm. Do you think it would help if I filed a lawsuit for harrasment, unlawful assault with a deadly weapon and unlawful arrest, with compensatory and punitive damages for mental anguish and suffering?".

    Because TJ absolutely DID have grounds for that lawsuit. He may or may not have won, but if he did he'd have cleaned up. The officer who drew on him and threatened to kill him really screwed up and put his department on the line, IMO. That's felony assault and certainly reasonable cause for mental anguish and suffering.

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    swillden wrote:
    colormered wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    When they were done a Sergeant came back with my gun and I was uncuffed. He said something to the effect that this will probably happen everytime.
    Not that it would necessarily be the MOST appropriate response, but I would have probably replied something like, "NEXT time I won't resist the urge to file a lawsuit, because now you KNOW better."
    Maybe not such a bad thing to say, especially if phrased as a polite question, like: "You really think this will happen a lot? Hmmm. Do you think it would help if I filed a lawsuit for harrasment, unlawful assault with a deadly weapon and unlawful arrest, with compensatory and punitive damages for mental anguish and suffering?".

    Because TJ absolutely DID have grounds for that lawsuit. He may or may not have won, but if he did he'd have cleaned up. The officer who drew on him and threatened to kill him really screwed up and put his department on the line, IMO. That's felony assault and certainly reasonable cause for mental anguish and suffering.
    Especially when had the buggerscratcher on the bangswitch. That made me kinda scared.

    TJ

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    colormered wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    When they were done a Sergeant came back with my gun and I was uncuffed. He said something to the effect that this will probably happen everytime.
    Not that it would necessarily be the MOST appropriate response, but I would have probably replied something like, "NEXT time I won't resist the urge to file a lawsuit, because now you KNOW better."
    Maybe not such a bad thing to say, especially if phrased as a polite question, like: "You really think this will happen a lot? Hmmm. Do you think it would help if I filed a lawsuit for harrasment, unlawful assault with a deadly weapon and unlawful arrest, with compensatory and punitive damages for mental anguish and suffering?".

    Because TJ absolutely DID have grounds for that lawsuit. He may or may not have won, but if he did he'd have cleaned up. The officer who drew on him and threatened to kill him really screwed up and put his department on the line, IMO. That's felony assault and certainly reasonable cause for mental anguish and suffering.
    Especially when had the buggerscratcher on the bangswitch. That made me kinda scared.

    TJ
    OMG that is freakin hilarious...:celebrate ROFL

    (the terminology is what's funny, not the event)

    Edit: To clarify what is funny.

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    Gee UTOC-45-44, if you weren't such a seedy looking character, this never would have happened to you.



    Tarzan

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Especially when had the buggerscratcher on the bangswitch. That made me kinda scared.
    He did? Wow. Maybe your low-key approach is better, but I'd have pressed charges. The DA probably would have refused to prosecute, but I'd have tried.

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    swillden wrote:
    ...........The DA probably would have refused to prosecute, but I'd have tried.
    I think I would have too.



    Tarzan

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Especially when had the buggerscratcher on the bangswitch. That made me kinda scared.
    This is such a complete and utter violation of safetyrules it deserves its own complaint when it happens.

    Its arguably an assault. If a finger isn't supposed to be inside the trigger guard until the very act of firing, one can say that seeing the finger inside the trigger guard means you are about to be fired upon.

    I'd be inclined to come down hard on this one. Complete with threats to testify in any civil case that comesup later that I personally witnessed unsafe gun-handling by XYZ PD. Let them try to explain that to a jury.I bet theydo refresher training real quick and document it thoroughly.

    There are plenty of examples of officers unintentionally discharging their duty weapon because their finger was inside the trigger-guard before a decision to shoot. Just read Massad Ayoob's files.

    Given the documented consequences of having a finger on the triggerwithout intending to shoot, itsgross negligence for any policedepartment to tolerate this or to fail to train heavily against it.

    Let the PD prove it was an isolated incident, rather than a systemic problem.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I just replied that I was WELL outside the 1000 feet by federal law if I didn't have a permit.
    Just a small question, what federal law? I was under the impression that this was purely a state issue because my understanding is that in Virginia only the grounds of a school are restricted, and it's still okay if you're in your car with no intentions of leaving.

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    asforme wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    I just replied that I was WELL outside the 1000 feet by federal law if I didn't have a permit.
    Just a small question, what federal law? I was under the impression that this was purely a state issue because my understanding is that in Virginia only the grounds of a school are restricted, and it's still okay if you're in your car with no intentions of leaving.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun-Free_School_Zones_Act

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    TJ,

    Did the EOD team come to secure the 133 "explosive devices" you carry on your belt? LMAO! They may have gotten a report of a suicide bomber with a gun!
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    ODA 226 wrote:
    TJ,

    Did the EOD team come to secure the 133 "explosive devices" you carry on your belt? LMAO! They may have gotten a report of a suicide bomber with a gun!
    ROTFLMAO

    UFuuuunny:celebrate



    TJ

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    swillden wrote:
    Snip That's felony assault
    Nope. Remember...laws do not apply to LEO 99% of the time.

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    USAF_MetalChris wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    Snip That's felony assault
    Nope. Remember...laws do not apply to LEO 99% of the time.
    Because usually the DA will refuse to charge, as I said. Still, it's worth bringing the issue up whenever possible.

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    My favorite part was how she thought you were "unreasonable" by asking what law you were breaking.

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    Everyone who does not agree with someone like that is unreasonable, or crazy.

    I learned that a long time ago.

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    colormered wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    When they were done a Sergeant came back with my gun and I was uncuffed. He said something to the effect that this will probably happen everytime.
    Not that it would necessarily be the MOST appropriate response, but I would have probably replied something like, "NEXT time I won't resist the urge to file a lawsuit, because now you KNOW better."
    Where to I contribute to your legal fund to sue them THIS time?!?

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    rpyne wrote:
    colormered wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    When they were done a Sergeant came back with my gun and I was uncuffed. He said something to the effect that this will probably happen everytime.
    Not that it would necessarily be the MOST appropriate response, but I would have probably replied something like, "NEXT time I won't resist the urge to file a lawsuit, because now you KNOW better."
    Where to I contribute to your legal fund to sue them THIS time?!?

    You can ALWAYS Pm me. There is ALWAYS a way to put $$$ in my savings account


    Or better yet...maybe I should create UTOC-45-44 LEGAL ACCOUNT:celebrate


    TJ


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