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Legal question..

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DreQo

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There are a couple cities around here that have ordinances that call for the posting of signs restricting concealed handguns in parks and such, BUT there is no ordinance that actually states that it is unlawful to carry in those places. Does this law in and of itself restrict carry?
ARTICLE XII. POSTING OF SIGNS PROHIBITING THE CARRYING OF CONCEALED WEAPONS ON CERTAIN MUNICIPAL PROPERTY

Sec. 2-79. Posting of signs required.

The city manager is hereby authorized and instructed to post conspicuous signage at appropriate locations on or within each park and each building or portion of a building owned, leased as lessee, operated, occupied, managed or controlled by the city, as well as the appurtenant premises to such buildings, indicating that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited therein.

(Ord. of 10-23-95(1), § 1)

Sec. 2-80. Location of signs.

Signs on buildings shall be visibly posted on the exterior of each entrance by which the general public can access the building. The city manager shall exercise discretion in determining the number and appropriate location of signs to be placed on or within appurtenant premises and parks.

(Ord. of 10-23-95(1), § 2)

Sec. 2-81. Municipal parking lots and driveways.

Signs posted by the city manager pursuant to this article shall not be construed to prohibit carrying a concealed handgun upon parking lots and driveways owned, leased as lessee, operated, occupied, managed or controlled by the city; however, this provision shall not modify any other law regarding carrying a concealed handgun.

(Ord. No. 99-02, § 1, 2-22-99)
Click to expand...
EDIT: Here's the link to this city's ordinances: http://www.municode.com/Resources/gateway.asp?pid=11832&sid=33
 
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DreQo

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Well the thing is, NC's preemption does not include parks and park buildings, leaving it up to the city to restrict those areas IF they so choose. Again, there is no other law that references the areas where these signs are posted.

So just for clarification, this law that I quoted does NOT make anything illegal, correct?
 
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DreQo

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lol Well I can't find the ordinances for the county this city is in, but I found the ordinances for the adjacent county. They have almost the exact same ordinance :banghead:. No law that restricts carry, just instructions to post signs. What is up with this crap?
 
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DreQo

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Ugh more headaches. So I called the City Manager's office to request an interpretation of the ordinance, and to find out where and IF a law existed that actually restricted carrying. The woman I spoke with ended up reading the ordinances along with me, and she couldn't find anything definitive either. Her advice? Talk to the police chief. :banghead:

Now I've always been told that the police are the last people to go to for legal advice and interpretations, so I'm not sure if I want to go that direction or not :?.
 
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DreQo

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I really don't like the idea of essentially requesting permission before I don't break the law. :? FWIW, the local PD here hasn't given me any crap for carrying as of yet. I even hadan officerstop by my place so I could report some vandalism, and I was openly carrying while we chatted outside. He didn't so much as blink at my sidearm, so that was reassuring.
 
Thundar

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The law for the signs say concealed carry. I would believe that open carry would be 100% legal then. No confusion, no is it a trespassing violation dribble. Not only is there not a law against open carry, there is a law against even posting a sign to forbid open carry.:D
 
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DreQo

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Thundar wrote:
The law for the signs say concealed carry. I would believe that open carry would be 100% legal then. No confusion, no is it a trespassing violation dribble. Not only is there not a law against open carry, there is a law against even posting a sign to forbid open carry.:D
Click to expand...
lol You do make a very good point. The signspecifically referencesconcealed carry of a handgun, so open carry is, theoretically,a complete non-issue. My concern is the fact that there are very large, obvious signs that restrict concealed handguns, so an openly carried handgun is almost guaranteed to attract unwanted attention. :?
 
Thundar

Thundar

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I have open carried in NC without incident. Just over the border from Chesapeake, but no issues.

It isn't really a right if you are afraid to exercise it.
 
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DreQo

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Thundar wrote:
I have open carried in NC without incident. Just over the border from Chesapeake, but no issues.

It isn't really a right if you are afraid to exercise it.
Click to expand...
Whats your point? I promise I've carried in this state a lot more than you have. I hope you're not implying that my concern is somehow unwarranted or unnecessary.
 
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Mike

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it would appear that it is not a local crime to carry concealed in those locations, the signs posted notwithstanding. Given NC's weak preemption, you might wan tot keep quiet about this - don;t ask, don;t tell.
 
D

DreQo

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Mike wrote:
it would appear that it is not a local crime to carry concealed in those locations, the signs posted notwithstanding. Given NC's weak preemption, you might wan tot keep quiet about this - don;t ask, don;t tell.
Click to expand...
I'm assuming you're saying that if I DO call attention to this, they may realize the lack of restrictions and attempt to pass more?
 
Thundar

Thundar

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DreQo wrote:
Thundar wrote:
I have open carried in NC without incident. Just over the border from Chesapeake, but no issues.

It isn't really a right if you are afraid to exercise it.
Click to expand...
Whats your point? I promise I've carried in this state a lot more than you have. I hope you're not implying that my concern is somehow unwarranted or unnecessary.
Click to expand...

Of course. Open carry if you want. Don't let silly signs that might prohibit you from doing x keep you from doing y.

x= concealed carry

y = open carry
 
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