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Thread: FreeFlight's Mom has a Question...

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    Hey folk's my Mum has a question for you all...here it is...



    "my son gave me a gun to carry on the side of my wheelchair....close to my hand......I feel safer with the gun, howeverI also feel more so that itwill be acatalyst for troublebecause of the wheelchair,which gets enough negative attention as it is....my son believes I need to open carry in order to be safe....I believe the gun will cause me problems with cops and other people who will now be challenged to "take me on."

    Anyway folks... thats what is going through mom's head at the moment.. any help/advice will be appreciated.




    Live free or Die... Freeflight










    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Good people do not want to "take you on." Bad people do want to take advantage of you. Some bad people may think that the wheelchair means you are an easy victim. The handgun may cause those bad people to not view you as an easy victim. In Virginia most police know that open carry is completely legal.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Good people do not want to "take you on." Bad people do want to take advantage of you. Some bad people may think that the wheelchair means you are an easy victim. The handgun may cause those bad people to not view you as an easy victim. In Virginia most police know that open carry is completely legal.
    I severely broke my ankle a few years ago and had an external-fixator (big pins and steel rods) sticking out of my leg. At 6'0", 265 and 9%body fat, most people didn't want to bother me, but I was obviously incapacitated and on crutches.

    One night in Norfolk, I exited my car and noticed 2 young "gentlemen" hiding in the trees nearby. Once they saw my condition, they immediately charged towards me.

    I dropped my crutches, drew my S&W Model 66 and they stopped with eyes bugging out like cartoon charactors and turned and ran! (And I mean RAN AWAY!)

    I shudder to think what might have happened had I not been armed.

    Don't worry about what other people think and take steps to ensure your safety and security.
    Bitka Sve Rešava!
    B-2-10 SFG(A)/ A-2-11 SFG(A) 1977-1994

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    If you are concerned with issues of it being "concealed" perhaps a thigh rig would help get rid of those worries? Might be a perfect application for a leg drop.

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    Founder's Club Member Hawkflyer's Avatar
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    There is an even greater need for people of diminished physical capacity to have at hand a means of self defense than is the case for people without such hinderances.

    The problem I see in the OPs comments relate to the concept that the weapon would be attached to the chair, presumably hanging somewhere outside the armrests near the wheel. One of the basic presumptions of OC is that the weapon be at hand, but well retained. I would be the first to advocate that a person in a wheel chair should carry a weapon for self defense, but that weapon should be carried in a way that does not tempt a bad guy into thinking he or she could grab the weapon and use it against the person who carries it.

    IMHO, a carry method that places the weapon under better retention control of the owner most of the time, but allows for indifference as to concealment and OC when required by code, would be a better option. This would require obtaining a CWP, to protect against inadvertent concealment. Also you might consider a chest carry if the person can accept the encumbrance of the straps and holsters.

    In any case, I believe that the value of the weapon as a repellant would be far overshadowed by its attractive nature for a snatch and run attack, or pick pocket, if carried in full view attached to the chair in such a way that the owner cannot actually feel someone attempting to take the weapon..

    Regards
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    Freeflight wrote:
    Hey folk's my Mum has a question for you all...here it is...



    "my son gave me a gun to carry on the side of my wheelchair....close to my hand......I feel safer with the gun, howeverI also feel more so that itwill be acatalyst for troublebecause of the wheelchair,which gets enough negative attention as it is....my son believes I need to open carry in order to be safe....I believe the gun will cause me problems with cops and other people who will now be challenged to "take me on."

    Anyway folks... thats what is going through mom's head at the moment.. any help/advice will be appreciated.




    Live free or Die... Freeflight









    slap a "I don't dial 911" stick on the back of the chair, you'll be g2g.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Folks who live in wheelchairs have done very well with shoulder rigs, crossdraw holsters, vests (with inside gun pockets) and some home-made rigs involving velcro applied to the inside of the side panel. Anything hanging outside the "armrest" is, as has been mentioned above, too prone to snatches, bumps, and generally getting in the way as well as drawing unwanted attention to the gun.

    Mostly it depends on 1) the range of mobility of the person's arms, 2) the configuration of their chair, and 3) their fashion sense. For example, Concealed Carry Clothiers makes a woman's vest http://www.concealedcarry.com/product.php?id=11with multiple pockets both inside and outside that can with a small amount of tailoring be fitted to the needs of someone in a wheelchair. You can also add any of their pocket holsters as desired.

    Another possibility is the cobbler's apron design (as an example - http://www.apronman.com/foodservice/cobblerapronlrg.htm). Look at your local restaurant supply house or sewing goods stores for them. A hint - it may be easier for the person to have the apron altered by cutting off some/most of the front and bringing the pockets up to their waist as they are seated, and maybe removing part of the back to eliminate pulling. The design is really basic and someone with moderate sewing skills could make their own.

    For more of an outdoors-wear idea, look at something like http://www.coronadoleather.com/brows...7&n=710959.

    Feel free to PM me if you would like to spend time kicking around ideas or designs.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    I would encourage her to get a CHP so she has options on how she carries in various circumstances (but then I encourage everyone to do that) and in case she would accidently conceal it at some point with a blanket or purse. I pretty much agree re: the inside the arms v outside the arms.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  9. #9
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    deepdiver wrote:
    I would encourage her to get a CHP so she has options on how she carries in various circumstances (but then I encourage everyone to do that) and in case she would accidently conceal it at some point with a blanket or purse. I pretty much agree re: the inside the arms v outside the arms.
    I presumed that Freeflight's Mum had, or was going to obtain, a CHP based on
    my son believes I need to open carry in order to be safe....I believe the gun will cause me problems
    One of the most important things to keep in mind is the configuration of the wheelchair. They come in variations from the "standard" http://www.medicalsupply4u.com/prodl...?idCategory=15to ultralights http://www.medicalsupply4u.com/prodl...?idCategory=17to superfast racers http://www.spinlife.com/critpath/mat...categoryID=137. How Freeflight's Mum carries will depend on the type of chair she uses.

    That being said, my informal "expert opinion" based on discussions with 5 folks in chairs who carry is that on-body carry (IWB, OWB) is the most difficult to deal with, attached in any fashion to the chair is moderately problematic, and use of clothing (vest, apron, fannypack) is the least problematic. Of course, mileage will vary depending on the individual.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    Thanks All for responding... Mom was worried that no one would respond to her... (I told her ahead of time THat I guarantee at least 2 respondents (Thundar and Skidmark) of coarse she got more that them she really liked BravoSeirra's suggestion (I don't call 911 bumper sticker on her chair ) and she has one cobblers apron mentioned by Skidmark

    I have encouraged her and Dad to get their CHP and go to class together and then to carry (This is a MAJOR step for them)

    Mom has an Nice electric wheelchair she has the .380 in a galco iwb holster clipped to a substantial piece of structural metal just under the wheelchair's control joystick between her leg and the metal.. it is in full view but its in a position she can ensure retention..and get to very quickly. also,when she drives the van she will not have to move it.. (it will still be in full view.) I cautioned her about covering it up and the legal garbage (BS)that ensues.

    btw. she called me yesterday after we left and came home. she saw the article in yesterday's paper about the VCDL eating out in Saslaw's district.. she seemed very excited (VCDL may have another 2 members soon in mom and dad)

    and I did remember to make her hold up her right hand and swear not to shoot dad next time she gets mad at him:what:

    :shock:Joking folks...

    We didn't get to go out OC yesterday but both of them are coming down to Tidewater next weekend, we will be going to the range together and they want to get a shotgun for the house

    I'm very proud of my parents...its only taken me 30 years to get them to see the light...

    Live free or DIE

    FreeFlight




    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Freeflight -

    Depending on their ages, and considering your mom's possible range of motion limitations, you might want to consider looking at a 20 guage or a .410 shotgun for their HD weapon.

    Grantedneither has the stopping power of a 12-guage, and both put fewer pellets downrange per shot. However, the lesser recoil and the lighter weight may be the difference between their being willing to use it and merely having a shotgun in the corner.

    Also, given you mom's situation, you may want to look into having them do the paperwork for an AOW and shorten the stock for her. Standard-length stock can be very difficult to maneuver and use from a sitting position. A shorter stock makes the shotgun front-heavy, so that may need to be adjusted as well.

    Having said that, I now have a vision of your mom with something like a lamb's leg shotgun in a scabbard slung down the back of her electric chair, knitting you a nice warm scarf or crocheting booties for her next grandkid.

    stay safe.

    skidmark


    PS - Is the joystick on the same side as your mom's shooting hand? If so, please talk her into getting it moved to the otherside of the chair. Otherwise, she is literally a sitting duck. Moving the joystick will give new meaning to "shoot and scoot."

    * edited to add PS.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

    "No matter how much contempt you have for the media in all this, you don't have enough"
    ----Allahpundit

  12. #12
    Campaign Veteran Freeflight's Avatar
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    skidmark wrote:
    Freeflight -

    Depending on their ages, and considering your mom's possible range of motion limitations, you might want to consider looking at a 20 guage or a .410 shotgun for their HD weapon.

    Grantedneither has the stopping power of a 12-guage, and both put fewer pellets downrange per shot. However, the lesser recoil and the lighter weight may be the difference between their being willing to use it and merely having a shotgun in the corner.

    Also, given you mom's situation, you may want to look into having them do the paperwork for an AOW and shorten the stock for her. Standard-length stock can be very difficult to maneuver and use from a sitting position. A shorter stock makes the shotgun front-heavy, so that may need to be adjusted as well.

    Having said that, I now have a vision of your mom with something like a lamb's leg shotgun in a scabbard slung down the back of her electric chair, knitting you a nice warm scarf or crocheting booties for her next grandkid.

    stay safe.

    skidmark


    PS - Is the joystick on the same side as your mom's shooting hand? If so, please talk her into getting it moved to the otherside of the chair. Otherwise, she is literally a sitting duck. Moving the joystick will give new meaning to "shoot and scoot."

    * edited to add PS.
    Skidmark,

    we began this evolution with the firearm on the weak-side, I am very worried about her strength (she has none..) and she is very right handed. Once we go to the range we will see, but you are correct she needs to be able to shoot and scoot and wont be able to do that where the firearm is currently mounted. I am also concerned about the retention options on the weak-side (the pistol is way out in the open.) Mom is now making the transition from constant white on the vigilance scale into orange.

    ...Having said that, I now have a vision of your mom with something like a lamb's leg shotgun in a scabbard slung down the back of her electric chair, knitting you a nice warm scarf or crocheting booties for her next grandkid. ...

    and somehow I knew I would not escape being the target of mommy jokes at freeflights expense.. of course it may get worse, she will be registering and posting here... she mentioned she may register as freeflights mom... sigh. anyway she is knitting booties for her second GREAT Grandson now who is due in July.

    I agree with you about the 110 or 20 also, however Dad will be the only wielder of the HDG as mom doesn't have enough strength to even lift a very small 110. much less fire it. we will be looking at the 20 ga. and let Dad decide. The .380 I have givenmom is all she can hope to handle. edit: in fact we might have to set her up with a .22 instead. we will see when we go to the range this weekend.

    FreeFlight







    And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms....The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"

    Thomas Jefferson in a letter to William S. Smith in 1787. Taken from Jefferson, On Democracy 20, S. Padover ed., 1939

    Free Flight

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