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Thread: Orange County Pistol Permit

  1. #1
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    My friend has been trying to get a handgun for around a year now in Orange county, and everytime they seem to find another reason to deny him that ability.

    First he took the concealed carry course and went to the Sheriff's office. His permit was denied due to some kind of strange tresspassing charge he got when he was 16. He's in his mid 20's now.

    Then recently he went to just get a regular pistol permit and he was told that unless he knew a police officer or deputy in Orange county he could not have a permit. I did not believe this at first, but he actually showed me the application. It states clearly in bold letters that if you don't know one, you are not eligible. It then it asks for the name of the person you know.

    What do you guys think he can do about this? How is it constitutional to deny people pistol permits on such a basis?

    He said the sheriff is very old and is likely going to be replaced this November, but if he is somehow re-elected then my friend will still be in the same situation. I don't think he has a lot of money right now, so I don't know that a lawyer is a practical approach for him at the moment. Is there anything you guys can think of that could be done to get him his permits?



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    The link I've included is to the form for a pistol permit in Orange County,NC. It is not a requirement to know a Police Officer to obtain a permit. The lady who does all Permitsnever told me I had to know a cop. They had mine done in 11 days. I wonder if there is more to the story on his prior arrest? Good luck.

    http://www.co.orange.nc.us/sheriff/forms/PISTOLAPP.pdf

    http://www.co.orange.nc.us/sheriff/c.../gunpermit.htm

  3. #3
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    Oh no I don't think he was arrested, that's the thing. I actually think it's not even supposed to be on his record. It's definitely nothing like a Felony or anything violent.

    Also, the permit he got was from the sheriffs department, not online. It did actually state what I said it does. I personally looked at it. When did you get the permit? I will attempt to get this to him and then perhaps he can take it in and ask why there are different requirements on each form.

    Notice how it says to list 3 references, and any LEOs you know on that permit you linked? It didn't say that on this one, which is very strange. It actually says something along the lines of "Do not fill out this application if you do not know a LEO." And then asks for the name of the LEO.

    Also notice that on the website you linked it essentially words it so that anything they don't like can cause it to be denied:

    After picking up your application, complete and return it to the Sheriff's front desk. Background checks will be conducted to satisfy this Office's requirements for good moral character.
    Also notices on the permit itself:

    THE SHERIFF WILL REVIEW ANY PRIOR CRIMINAL CHARGES OR CONCVICTIONS. IT IS WITHIN THE SHERIFF’S DISCRETION TO DENY OR APPROVE PISTOL PURCHASE PERMITS.
    According to this, just being CHARGED, not even convicted, is all it takes to be denied the permit in Orange Co. Like I said, I don't think this charge (It may have been like a 3rd degree tresspassing charge, something super minor) was even a problem at all, but all of a sudden the office told him that something incredibly minor that happened like 8 to 10 years prior made him ineligible for the CC permit. Then he got the regular pistol permit and he saw that other rule about knowing a LEO, so he showed it to me.


    I was charged with 3rd degree tresspassing when I was about 17 for trying to meet my cousin in front of Home Depot an hour after it closed in a town I was not familiar with. I was going to follow him home from there. Some idiots came in the parking lot and started burning out and stuff, way down at the other end. Police were across the street dealing with an accident. Well, right after the cars were towed away the police came over to the parking lot and blocked me in. A number of the other cars noticed this and scattered; some got away, some didn't. Anyway, the police acted like I was part of their group and gave me a ticket for 3rd degree tresspassing. Apparently this town was very bad for street racing and illegal gatherings of "car clubs" on private property. What I thought of at the time as being perfectly fine, was in fact illegal. They did, of course, see on my drivers license that I was not from there, and I told them I didn't know any of those idiots and I'm sure even they would have verified that, but the police didn't care. The charges were dropped, but if all you need is a record of being charged, then I might be ineligible in Orange Co. for a pistol permit too.. That is wild.

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    Which office did he go to..I went to the Hillsborough location. You DO NOT have to know a LEO to get a permit or most people would not get one.I dont know any LEO. I talked to a lady named Roxy Wilkins and I used the forms I downloaded from the website.I got my permits about 2 1/2month ago. I justapplied for my CCH about 41/2 weeks ago so I'm still waiting for that. Hope it won't take the full 90days. Iwould call the Office and ask for Roxy..maybe she can explain what's going on.

    Good luck!!!


    P.S. What kinda weak 9mm do you have. I have an HK P30..I love it!!!

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    Thanks for that information. I will get it to him ASAP and find out where he went.

    I have a Glock 17, and I just installed a DPM recoil reducing spring and metal guide rod for it. I can't wait to test it out now, but so far I've really liked it even without the DPM mechanical system. I've never had a single malfunction. Racking the slide feels different now, in that it's slightly harder to do yet smoother. You can also tell that it can't slam fully to the rear anymore. It may increase the longevity of some parts slightly, but the main effect should be decreased recoil and muzzle rise. They also claim increased reliability, but if you already have 100% reliability that's hard to do, lol. The parts are quite nice and fit perfectly.

    There are some other 9mm's I'd prefer, but I got a good deal on this one and it was hard to pass it up. Just over $400 for a barely used 3rd generation G17 with night sights. The H&K sounds nice, I haven't tried one out yet.



    Update:

    I just spoke with him and he said that when he got the forms a few weeks ago they implied that there had been a few major changes to it in the very recent past. He also said that he asked people he knows that work in gun stores and other folks, and that none of them had heard of this either. I am wondering if this is something that actually happened since you got your permit. I will attempt to get my hands on it and perhaps it can be scanned and posted. I am telling you for sure though, that I saw the exact statement on the application, and it was definitely for Orange County and he just verified that it was from the Hillsboro Location. Very weird indeed.

  6. #6
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    Very strange indeed!I would love to see a scanned copy of it. Keep me posted.

  7. #7
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    Any other suggestions or comments? Is this requirement legal according to NC law and if not is there any way to fight it?


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  9. #9
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    Ok, this sounds very strange! I'm sure your aware that OC is typically liberal, I'm sure thats where the prob lies...

    First off.... North Carolina is a Right-to-Carry (RTC) state. The state has a "shall issue" law that requires concealed carry permits to be obtained by residents who choose to carry a concealed weapon. As long as you are over the age of 21, have never been convicted of a felony and are a current resident you can get a permit to carry a concealed weapon in North Carolina.

    Secondly.... Your friend does not need a pistol permit per see. Once he receives his CCW, he can legally buy on demand without a permit.

    Third.... There are legal steps you can take to appeal any refusal of a CCW or pistol permit.

    If I were you... I would call Roy Coopers office and make an appointment. FYI, Roy Cooper is the state attorney general. I would tell him exactly what happen and show him the applications and the refusals. If anyone can get the ball rolling in the right direction it's Roy Cooper. I'll leave his information at the bottom of this post.

    And last.... if you can't make any progress with the attorney generals office, I would hire an attorney.

    C. Eligible Persons
    1. Federal Law Requirements
    As a general rule, the following categories of persons are ineligible to receive or
    possess a firearm under federal law:
    a. Persons under indictment or information in any court for a crime
    punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one (1) year;1
    b. Persons convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for
    a term exceeding one (1) year. A person would not be ineligible under this
    criteria if the person has been pardoned for the crime or conviction, the
    crime or conviction has been expunged or set aside, or the person has had
    their civil rights restored, and under the law where the conviction occurred,
    the person is not prohibited from receiving or possessing any firearm;
    c. The person is a fugitive from justice;
    d. The person is an unlawful user of, or addicted to, marijuana, or any
    depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug, or any other controlled substance;
    e. The person has been adjudicated mentally defective or has been committed
    to a mental institution;
    f. The person has been discharged from the U.S. armed forces under
    dishonorable conditions;
    6
    g. The person is illegally in the United States; or
    h. The person, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his
    or her citizenship.

    Each applicant for a license or permit should be informed by the sheriff within thirty
    (30) days of the date of his or her application whether the permit will be granted or denied.
    When a sheriff is not fully satisfied with the applicant's good moral character or eligibility
    to receive a permit, he/she should notify the applicant of the reasons for his or her refusal
    to issue a permit within seven (7) days of his or her decision. An applicant refused a permit
    has a right to appeal such refusal to the Chief District Court Judge for the district in which
    the application was filed. N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-404

    North Carolina Department of Justice
    Roy Cooper, Attorney General
    (919) 716-6400


    http://www.ncdoj.com/default_contact...tionid=general


    lemme know how this turns out

  10. #10
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    Secondly.... Your friend does not need a pistol permit per see. Once he receives his CCW, he can legally buy on demand without a permit.
    I am aware of this, I have a CC permit. The sheriff apparently has the right to deny whatever he wants and he does. He denied my friend the CC permit after he took the course and paid for the application and everything.

    Then my friend went back in a month or so later and asked for the application for a purchase permit. Right there on the application it says to write down the LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER that you know, not just any reference, but it MUST BE AN LEO. It also says that if you do not have an LEO reference, your application will be denied. It says it right there on the paper.

    I was amazed when I wrote that in this thred before, people didn't believe me. I have seen this application with my own two eyes. When he got the application, the secretary told him that it had changed drastically within the past week or two. Someone else in here said "Oh, well I went in like two months ago and it didn't say that." Well, I said that they told him that it had changed VERY recently.

    I have filled out these applications in Wake county and they say NOTHING of this sort. My jaw hit the floor when I saw this as a requirement. But this sheriff is apparently well known for being really hardcore on you not having ANY criminal record. Even if that is a non-violent misdemeanor tresspassing charge from 10+ years ago (He was 16) that was supposed to have been expunged. Now he has made a requirement that you personally know an LEO as a reference. Which makes sense, he clearly wants to be able to find you NOW if he even thinks you've done something wrong.

    I will tell my friend what you've said, but honestly I think he's given up even dealing with them and he will probably purchase a pistol via a private transfer in Virginia.

  11. #11
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    Thats just it though. The sheriff DOES NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO DENY WHEN HE FILLS FIT. That is what it means by being a Right To Carry State. In order to legally deny an applicant, the denial must be legally justified! He can't do it just because he doesn't fill like it.

    As far as the permit goes... I admit.... I don't have a clue. But it sounds as though he's making people jump through hoops.

    If your friend does want to give up and go purchase through VA, well I guess thats his decision. If it were me, I would contact the attorney general to find out if what this sheriff is doing is legal.

  12. #12
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    He said that he will go talk to the Attorney General about it and will bring that Application to show him if he's able to get an appointment.

    I have heard that it is always at the sheriff's "discretion." Now maybe that's wrong, but that's the way this guy handle's it over there. It is crazy to think that he's denying things over something so minor, but he is. It's also nice that he puts insane requirements on the application. If he can't do that, hopefully notifying the Attorney General will get the ball rolling on putting this sheriff in his place! I can't wait to find out what happens with this because he spent a crapload of money just to get denied. That damned sheriff's office gained about $100 out of the ordeal and a set of fingerprints, which is REALLY messed up IMO.

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