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Thread: Police at the door video

  1. #1
    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Came across this video today and the thought runs through my head this is not the way to handle a police encounter. Its good that they knew their rights, and were video taping it, but screaming and cursing at people with firearms is never a good idea. In the event something should go even more wrong, it hurts your credibility with anyone who may be viewing it later. Judging by the comments on liveleak this is demonstrably so.

    So I guess the moral of the story is to keep your cool, even if you are being wronged it will pay off in the long run. Look to PaPatriot as an example.

    [flash=450,370]http://www.liveleak.com/e/6a5_1209792628[/flash]

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    Wow these LEOs acted with a lot of restraint. There is no excuse for this level of bad manners. I often argue against abuse of power or injustices committed by LE but in this case what I saw seemed to be uncalled for.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Liberty is not always beautiful. The police maintained their professional demeanor even when insulted.

    Did anybody else notice that this video illustrates almost every gun owner negative stereotype?
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    "Yea, I studied law ************!!" hehehe.

    Looks like they overreacted a little bit.

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    Amazing restraint on the part of the cops. The officers should have a pat on the back instead of the verbal abuse they got from these little punks.

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    Obviously I have had an encounter or two with the LEO and I feel that this behavior was not right by these people. The officers knew that they could not do anything and therefore had to leave.

    TJ

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    irfner wrote:
    Wow these LEOs acted with a lot of restraint. There is no excuse for this level of bad manners. I often argue against abuse of power or injustices committed by LE but in this case what I saw seemed to be uncalled for.
    +1

    Not sure where that was but, that level of disrespect to an LEO wouldn't fly around here....

  8. #8
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Link to video on liveleak in case anyone wants to see the comments.

    Those guys appeared to be totally out of line. We don't know what precipitated all that beyond gunfire, but the cops appeared to show great restraint and professionalism in the face of abhorrent, antisocial behavior.

    Gunfire, cops are called, cops show up to see what's up. That's their job. If they see nothing illegal, verify everyone is ok and aren't violating anyone's rights doing so, it's just a check on welfare and what we pay them to do. Those guys with the camera are the poster children for everything we do not want associated with law abiding, responsible citizen gun owners. Looked like a group of total jerks harrasing cops just doing their jobs.

    ETA: I often say that I would feel safer in a group of gun carrying citizens than in a locked down, gun-free society. Those guys, totally lacking in self-control or any manner of decorum, nearly make me rethink that stance. I think I might have cheered out loud if one of the officers had just up and shot one of those turds in the knee.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Fellas,

    No matter their level of sophistication and manners, the more important point is that they exercised their rights.

    With rights there is no requirement that you be nice to a police officer. It is not, "You have the right to refuse consent to the encounter only if you are polite."

    Its our right to exercise without regard to niceties, manners, etc.*

    I think we set a bad precedent when we criticize fellow citizens for not exercising their rights with good manners. Our rights are not dependent on our manners. To imply otherwise opens the door tononsense. Its a very badidea to connect rightsto manners.

    While I would have handled it differently, I won't criticize them for being common and vulgar while exercising their rights. Unsophisticated people have rights, too.

    *Except when it gets into the realm of fighting words/disorderly conduct or threatening assault on a police officer. I might criticize them for using fighting words or coming close; but I would totally divorce it from their exercise of their rights.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Citizen wrote:
    Fellas,

    No matter their level of sophistication and manners, the more important point is that they exercised their rights.

    With rights there is no requirement that you be nice to a police officer. It is not, "You have the right to refuse consent to the encounter only if you are polite."

    Its our right to exercise without regard to niceties, manners, etc.*

    I think we set a bad precedent when we criticize fellow citizens for not exercising their rights with good manners. Our rights are not dependent on our manners. To imply otherwise opens the door tononsense. Its a very badidea to connect rightsto manners.

    While I would have handled it differently, I won't criticize them for being common and vulgar while exercising their rights. Unsophisticated people have rights, too.

    *Except when it gets into the realm of fighting words/disorderly conduct or threatening assault on a police officer. I might criticize them for using fighting words or coming close; but I would totally divorce it from their exercise of their rights.
    Exercising your rights is not an excuse for bad manners. While I agree they had the right to request the officers leave I in no way condonehow they did it. I do not like it when police abuse their power no do I like it when citizens abuse theirs. Talking like this to anyone is clearly abusive and way beyond just good manners. That is my opinion andI am sticking to it.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    I agree. People should respect others and be civil. Nothing is gained from treating others like garbage just because of profession. Common decency is not so common anymore.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    I was fine with what they were doing until they started being vulgar. I think then it would have been perfectly appropriate for them to be arrested for violating city ordinances against profanity that can be heard on public streets. I don't know if they actually have a law like that there, but many towns do and I hate people yelling profanity where my child could hear it. It's unnecessary and not the essence of free speech that is protected in the Constitution.

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    irfner wrote:
    Exercising your rights is not an excuse for bad manners. While I agree they had the right to request the officers leave I in no way condonehow they did it. I do not like it when police abuse their power no do I like it when citizens abuse theirs. Talking like this to anyone is clearly abusive and way beyond just good manners. That is my opinion andI am sticking to it.
    I appreciate your concern. Your's too, Flintlock.

    We already have someone on this thread mentioning that the bad manners makes it look bad in the eyes of the public.

    What does that really mean? It means we have enough people with so little understanding of the importance of their Constitutional rights that one has to be careful to be well-mannered when exercising them, or lots of other people will assign more importance to the rudeness than the rights.

    Rights are rights are rights. It is folly to connect them to anything.It isfolly tosay or even imply that they depend on anything.

    How many times have we heard about police who "didn't like someone's attitude," which really meant they weren't willingto cooperate and do what the police officer wanted? We've even hada statement on thisforum by an LEO that revealed thattheLEO's underlying attitude wasthat cooperation is just anice word for compliance. We've also had reports that "uncooperativeness" = increased suspicion because "those who aren't guilty of anything will cooperate." Meaning exercising your rights = you must be guilty of something. Which is just another way of saying your rights depend on being guilty of something--a complete inversion of the purpose of rights. They're there to protect the innocent from government abuse.

    Rights are very senior. The Declaration of Independence says, "...that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men,..."(emphasismine) We need to keep rights senior to everything.

    Rudeness and civility are cultural matters. Manners do have an importance. A high importance. But they're not more important than rights. And rights do not depend on using them. If we want to criticize the home movie stars' rudeness, great. Weneed to divorce it from their rights. Which basically just turns the video into a couple jerks being rude to somebody else.




    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  14. #14
    Regular Member TechnoWeenie's Avatar
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    What a bunch of morons..

    A quick.. 'sorry bout that officer, we were just out back doing some target practice' woulda been the end of that...

    I love the fact that the officer got out with a camera of his own..

    TOUCHE!
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    Founder's Club Member - Moderator longwatch's Avatar
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    Citizen, I totally agree that they seem to have been within their rights and those rights are absolute. That said when those rights are violated who arbitrates the dispute? Usually a jury, and the reality is that a jury of your peers might not see it your way if you are acting like a jerk. This is one of those situations where principle and practicality run into each other.

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    longwatch wrote:
    Citizen, I totally agree that they seem to have been within their rights and those rights are absolute. That said when those rights are violated who arbitrates the dispute? Usually a jury, and the reality is that a jury of your peers might not see it your way if you are acting like a jerk. This is one of those situations where principle and practicality run into each other.
    Oh, I'm with you.

    I did not fail to noticethe text in your OP. I agree withwhat you wrote.

    I'm making the case for those who didn't. Or perhaps didn't seem to.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Their rights and their manners are two different things. I didn't see anyone in the thread saying they weren't within their rights to be utter jerk-offs. I did state that they are not the kind of people we need associated with responsible firearm ownership. Doesn't mean they don't have a right to have a gun or that I want to take their guns away. But when we are all working so very hard to re-establish our 2A rights in this nation, tools like this jack-offs do nothing but hurt the our cause. It really has nothing to do with firearms. It has to do with a group of numb-nuts acting in an anti-social manner while being involved with something I care deeply about and then publicizing their behavior and the involvement with that "something". This just happens to be regarding firearms, but their behavior is not about firearms.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    I suspect the police were sent there for shots being fired. This is not really clear but I know I have been sent many times for this and if it is not a shooting range... neighbors get a little concerned if they live next door.

    All I do is make sure they are shooting in a safe direction and make sure people are not being murdered. So the police had some authority to actually go there just to check and be sure all was safe and to set the neighbor at ease.

    There are normally state codes that allow them to enter property marked "No Trespassing" for health and welfare checks. Such as 9-1-1, Fights, andDomestic Violence calls.

    The policearrivedand found at least two guys acting like total turds. I did not see anything on tape where the police were rude to justify this behavior. It was only towards the end of an extended exposure to the rude behavior that the officer came out with his camera. They did remain calm for a long time.

    Do they have the right to be complete morons and scream obscenities to the police? Sure..... But this should be in no way misconstrued as "protecting their rights". They were simply being butt-heads protecting NOTHING!!

    Being a jerk is not a right you must "use or lose". This is a god given right that nobody can take away.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I suspect the police were sent there for shots being fired. This is not really clear but I know I have been sent many times for this and if it is not a shooting range... neighbors get a little concerned if they live next door.

    All I do is make sure they are shooting in a safe direction and make sure people are not being murdered. So the police had some authority to actually go there just to check and be sure all was safe and to set the neighbor at ease.

    There are normally state codes that allow them to enter property marked "No Trespassing" for health and welfare checks. Such as 9-1-1, Fights, andDomestic Violence calls.

    The policearrivedand found at least two guys acting like total turds. I did not see anything on tape where the police were rude to justify this behavior. It was only towards the end of an extended exposure to the rude behavior that the officer came out with his camera. They did remain calm for a long time.

    Do they have the right to be complete morons and scream obscenities to the police? Sure..... But this should be is in no way misconstrued as "protecting their rights". They were simply being butt-heads protecting NOTHING!!
    I really don't think these tools, LOL, realize that between the camera and quite possibly a dash cam, that their photos are now in a data base at the local sheriff's dept for all to review (BOL)-for an indefinite period of time.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    I really don't think these tools, LOL, realize that between the camera and quite possibly a dash cam, that their photos are now in a data base at the local sheriff's dept for all to review (BOL)-for an indefinite period of time.
    * BOLO *BOLO* BOLO * BOLO *

    Be aware there are twocitizens that

    may someday call 911 and ask for

    help from the same officers!!



    *BOLO *BOLO* BOLO * BOLO *

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    I really don't think these tools, LOL, realize that between the camera and quite possibly a dash cam, that their photos are now in a data base at the local sheriff's dept for all to review (BOL)-for an indefinite period of time.
    * BOLO *BOLO* BOLO * BOLO *

    Be aware there are twocitizens that

    may someday call 911 and ask for

    help from the same officers!!



    *BOLO *BOLO* BOLO * BOLO *
    Thanks LEO, now I need a new keyboard. LOL.

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    Regular Member ODA 226's Avatar
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    I would have arrested them immediately for Curse and Abuse.
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    Other than the right to be an ******* what rights were they exercising and what were they complaining about? We really need more of this encounter to figure out what was going on but this whole things sounds like a lot of the encounters posted here on OCDO.

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    PT111 wrote:
    Other than the right to be an ******* what rights were they exercising and what were they complaining about? We really need more of this encounter to figure out what was going on but this whole things sounds like a lot of the encounters posted here on OCDO.
    I was 100% with you until the bolded part.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    Can't say I side in any way, shape, or form with those trash. In fact, I would have really liked to see one of the officers get back in their face with language that would make them blush in the hopeful event that one of those idiots would try to get physical.

    In the late 60's, I used to frequently go plinking at a dump just over the bridge in Woodbridge where there is now a marina. On occasion, a PWC officer would drive down to where we were and just remind us to be careful and watch where we were shooting. Never had a problem or a concern with what we were doing. We did the same thing in a few wooded areas of Fairfax as well. No bad language, no disrespect, and no hassle.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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