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Thread: IS THIS VALID or NOT

  1. #1
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    Where Unlawful to Carry


    §18.2-308 (J.3.): No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in § 4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia, nothing herein shall prohibit any sworn law-enforcement officer from carrying a concealed handgun on the premises of such restaurant or club or any owner or event sponsor or his employees from carrying a concealed handgun while on duty at such restaurant or club if such person has a concealed handgun permit.

    §18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.

    §18.2-283: To a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place, without good and sufficient reason.

    §18.2-283.1: Courthouse.

    §18.2-308.1: School property. Exemptions to this statute include a person who has a valid concealed handgun permit and possesses a concealed handgun while in a motor vehicle in a parking lot, traffic circle, or other means of vehicular ingress or egress to the school.

    §18.2-287.01: Carrying weapon in air carrier airport terminal




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    Could you be more specific. I OC and CC to those places all the time unless there's a sign prohibiting firearms in general

    -carlo

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    double tap

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  5. #5
    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    marine2000 wrote:
    Well i was in the Woodbridge Post office last week and was told by one of the employess that unless i was a Federal officer i couldn't have my S&W MP40 on me (Open Carry)...
    Post offices are prohibited at the federal level, not the state level...

    And yes, both OC & CC are prohibited in any post office.

    DMVs in VA are legal, banks are legal, you can carry there at the discretion of the management...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

  6. #6
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    Thanx Roscoe...Appreciate the help there....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  7. #7
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    If you are not absolutely 100% sure that you are legal carrying somewhere, cover it up!
    As the good folks over at the Manassas PD said you better be "hyper aware of all of this" if you plan on OC-ing.

    You were dagome lucky at the post office. You might have ended up being the test case for the legality of self defense carry there. That's a position you don't want to end up in by accident.

  8. #8
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    I have read a legal opinion about the post office that said that it was ok to carry there.

    The Code of Federal Regulations is a handbook that basically tells Federal Agencies how to operate. It says that you cant bring firearms in, but it also says that nothing in the CFR overides Federal Law (The U.S. Code)

    The U.S. Code says.....


    §930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

    1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    So, in my mind (just my opinion), if you are lawfully carrying (not precluded by law from possessing a firearm, like aconvicted felon)a firearm in a Federal facility (the post office) incident to another lawful purpose (mailing a letter, buying stamps, etc), its legal. If you are carrying a firearm incident to an unlawful purpose (committing mail fraud, robbing the post office, assaulting a postal employee, etc) its illegal.

    I welcome the opinions of any lawyers here..........
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
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    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

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    marine2000 wrote:
    Where Unlawful to Carry

    §18.2-308 (O.): Private property when prohibited by the owner of the property, or where posted as prohibited.
    Where did you get this? 308(O) does not say anything about "where posted."

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    Is a post office for sure considered Fed Property, I have seen this discussed on other boards and have never seen a denifitive answer.

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    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    dixiehacker wrote:
    If you are not absolutely 100% sure that you are legal carrying somewhere, cover it up!
    As the good folks over at the Manassas PD said you better be "hyper aware of all of this" if you plan on OC-ing.

    You were dagome lucky at the post office. You might have ended up being the test case for the legality of self defense carry there. That's a position you don't want to end up in by accident.
    HELLER! HELLER! HELLER! It really would be a good court case. In reality it's only the employees of the PO that go postal :^). So why ban the citizen?

  12. #12
    Regular Member Neplusultra's Avatar
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    Resqu2 wrote:
    Is a post office for sure considered Fed Property, I have seen this discussed on other boards and have never seen a denifitive answer.
    I believe the statute says in one place that if you are legal to carry in that state you can carry in the PO. Then IIRC there's another statute that says you can't. So it's real iffy and you would most likely win a court case, IF you don't mind the possibility of that hassle and expense. I would not OC, maybe CC.

    I'm buying a gunsafe for my truck today. No more worrying about smash and grabs if someone sees me stowing my piece while in the PO or other unenlightened place.

  13. #13
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    18.2-308 (O) actually says this (from http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp...0+cod+18.2-308):

    O. The granting of a concealed handgun permit shall not thereby authorize the possession of any handgun or other weapon on property or in places where such possession is otherwise prohibited by law or is prohibited by the owner of private property.

    The word "posted" doesn't even exist anywhere in 18.2-308.

    On a side note, there is this handy "search" function in this forum that would have answered most of your questions. All of those locations have been covered repeatedly on here already.

  14. #14
    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    ProShooter wrote:
    I have read a legal opinion about the post office that said that it was ok to carry there.

    The Code of Federal Regulations is a handbook that basically tells Federal Agencies how to operate. It says that you cant bring firearms in, but it also says that nothing in the CFR overides Federal Law (The U.S. Code)

    The U.S. Code says.....


    §930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
    (a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

    1111, 1112, 1113, and 1117.
    (d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
    (1) the lawful performance of official duties by an officer, agent, or employee of the United States, a State, or a political subdivision thereof, who is authorized by law to engage in or supervise the prevention, detection, investigation, or prosecution of any violation of law;
    (2) the possession of a firearm or other dangerous weapon by a Federal official or a member of the Armed Forces if such possession is authorized by law; or
    (3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.

    So, in my mind (just my opinion), if you are lawfully carrying (not precluded by law from possessing a firearm, like aconvicted felon)a firearm in a Federal facility (the post office) incident to another lawful purpose (mailing a letter, buying stamps, etc), its legal. If you are carrying a firearm incident to an unlawful purpose (committing mail fraud, robbing the post office, assaulting a postal employee, etc) its illegal.

    I welcome the opinions of any lawyers here..........
    I also have read that or a similar legal opinion. Being that I do not have a 55 gallon drum stuffed full of $100 bills handy, I am not willing to become a test case for that legal argument, and not willing to give up my right to own firearms if I lose.

    I'll be more impressed by the legal argument after the atty who wrote it CC/OC's into USPS offices until arrested and then wins his case with that argument in federal court. I hope it is a correct argument and I hope that someday, someone with deep pockets and a lot of free time ajudicates the matter and wins. Until then, my happy butt is not carrying into a post office.
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

  15. #15
    Regular Member zoom6zoom's Avatar
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    Roscoe, Marine2k edited his post... be a bud and edit his quoted post out of yours! We need a test case but let's not tempt fate.

  16. #16
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
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    Obviously,I am not an attorney. I'm just an average guy like all of you. To me, its pretty clearly written. A few weeks ago, I called the ATF (on another matter) and asked about this as well. The agent said that she would have to check with her division counsel and get back to me. I'm still waiting. I may have another contact that I can try.
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  17. #17
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    well spoken

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