Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Recording Police

  1. #1
    Campaign Veteran
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    145

    Post imported post

    I've seen a lot of trouble lately about people who voice or video record the police, and who are told to stop. From what I understand, there's no reason why they shouldn't be recorded, but when they tell you to stop, that could be construed as a lawful order that must be obeyed. There's the recent mess in Pennsylvania, where PA Patriot's wife was ordered to stop filming, and youtube is full of such things.

    So what's the rule?

  2. #2
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    Would love to have a definite answer to this.

    Also, can we walk into a police station with a voice recorder? How about a video recorder?

  3. #3
    Regular Member sccrref's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA, , USA
    Posts
    741

    Post imported post

    What is allowed or not allowed varies from state to state. Some places it is okay as long as 1 party is aware of the recording (you). Other places require everyone to be notified. Google your state statutes/codes and then search within them for your state's applicable laws. Search returned nothingabout recording public conversations.

    750.539c Eavesdropping upon private conversation.



    Sec. 539c.

    Any person who is present or who is not present during a private conversation and who wilfully uses any device to eavesdrop upon the conversation without the consent of all parties thereto, or who knowingly aids, employs or procures another person to do the same in violation of this section, is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1966, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967

  4. #4
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    Rogue9er wrote:
    I've seen a lot of trouble lately about people who voice or video record the police, and who are told to stop. From what I understand, there's no reason why they shouldn't be recorded, but when they tell you to stop, that could be construed as a lawful order that must be obeyed. There's the recent mess in Pennsylvania, where PA Patriot's wife was ordered to stop filming, and youtube is full of such things.

    So what's the rule?
    If it's legal in your state as it is in Michigan and you were told to stop recording by an LEO, it WOULDNOT be a lawful order. There is no expectation of privacy in public places in Michigan. They can not ask you to stop recording in public or in your own home. If the police can record youthen by God you should be allowed to record them. We want things to be out in the open and not have secret police activities, that is a dangerous slope.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  5. #5
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    dougwg wrote:
    Would love to have a definite answer to this.

    Also, can we walk into a police station with a voice recorder? How about a video recorder?

  6. #6
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    dougwg wrote:
    dougwg wrote:
    Would love to have a definite answer to this.

    Also, can we walk into a police station with a voice recorder? How about a video recorder?
    I don't see why you couldn't. It's a public building and you are taping public servants serving the public. You wouldn't be allowed to record anything about an ongoing criminal investigation as that is protected. But you could record from the lobby of the police office and I would think you could record a conversation you are having with an LEO.

    The only thing I have found on recording in Michigan is below:


    Taping a conversation

    Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539c: A private conversation legally cannot be overheard or recorded without the consent of all participants. Illegal eavesdropping can be punished as a felony carrying a jail term of up to two years and a fine of up to $2,000.

    In addition, any individual who divulges information he knows, or reasonably should know, was obtained through illegal eavesdropping is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to two years and a fine of up to $2,000. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539e. Civil liability for actual and punitive damages also are sanctioned. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539h.

    The eavesdropping statute has been interpreted by one court as applying only to situations in which a third party has intercepted a communication, an interpretation that makes it legal for a participant in a conversation to record that conversation without the permission of other parties. Sullivan v. Gray, 324 N.W.2d 58 (Mich. Ct. App. 1982).

    The state supreme court stated in a July 1999 ruling that a participant in a conversation "may not unilaterally nullify other participants' expectations of privacy by secretly broadcasting the conversation" and that the overriding inquiry should be whether the parties "intended and reasonably expected that the conversation was private." Therefore, it is likely that a recording party may not broadcast a recorded conversation without the consent of all parties. Dickerson v. Raphael, 601 N.W.2d 108 (Mich.1999).

    Under the Michigan statute, a parent may not vicariously consent to a recording for a minor child. Williams v. Williams, 603 N.W. 2d 114 (Mich. Ct. App. 1999).

    It is a felony to observe, photograph or eavesdrop on a person in a private place without the person's consent. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539d. A private place is a place where one may reasonably expect to be safe from intrusion or surveillance, but not a place where the public has access. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539a.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  7. #7
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    Just bought a clip on mike for my voice recorder. Cost about $25 at Radio Shack. Works great, I can run it under my shirt and clip near my collar and have the recorder in my pocket. I would only have this rigged if I was expecting trouble from LEO's, like an OCget together, etc... Normally I just have the voice recorder in my chest pocket.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  8. #8
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    sccrref wrote:
    750.539c Eavesdropping upon private conversation.



    Sec. 539c.

    Any person who is present or who is not present during a private conversation and who wilfully uses any device to eavesdrop upon the conversation without the consent of all parties thereto, or who knowingly aids, employs or procures another person to do the same in violation of this section, is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1966, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967
    Just to clearify: Talking to a LEO during a "stop" is NOT a private conversation but rather a PUBLIC one and therefore legal.



  9. #9
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    dougwg wrote:
    sccrref wrote:
    750.539c Eavesdropping upon private conversation.



    Sec. 539c.

    Any person who is present or who is not present during a private conversation and who wilfully uses any device to eavesdrop upon the conversation without the consent of all parties thereto, or who knowingly aids, employs or procures another person to do the same in violation of this section, is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1966, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967
    Just to clearify: Talking to a LEO during a "stop" is NOT a private conversation but rather a PUBLIC one and therefore legal.

    So true, after all they are taping you, only fair that you can tape them. The only problem is that if an arrestis made and they find the tape it might "get lost" somehow. That's why I recommend not telling them you are recording or let them see the recorder if possible.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Silverwood, Michigan
    Posts
    720

    Post imported post

    Would like to remind you all/refer you all to this thread, as it has been discussed before. Michigan is a ONE party state. As long as ONE party of the recorded party is aware the recording is happening NO law is broken. From this moment forward i give myself permission to record ANY conversation i am a party of LoL

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum30/11362.html

  11. #11
    Regular Member Bronson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Battle Creek, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,157

    Post imported post

    Many MP3 players also have a voice recorder feature. My Sansa view does, and the mic is pretty sensitive.

    Bronson
    Those who expect to reap the benefits of freedom, must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it. Thomas Paine

  12. #12
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ann Arbor Area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    86

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    Just bought a clip on mike for my voice recorder. Cost about $25 at Radio Shack. Works great, I can run it under my shirt and clip near my collar and have the recorder in my pocket. I would only have this rigged if I was expecting trouble from LEO's, like an OCget together, etc... Normally I just have the voice recorder in my chest pocket.
    Did you compare the sound quality with/without the mike?

  13. #13
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    Greggy_D wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    Just bought a clip on mike for my voice recorder. Cost about $25 at Radio Shack. Works great, I can run it under my shirt and clip near my collar and have the recorder in my pocket. I would only have this rigged if I was expecting trouble from LEO's, like an OCget together, etc... Normally I just have the voice recorder in my chest pocket.
    Did you compare the sound quality with/without the mike?
    Not directly. I have recored a conversation with the recorder in my shirt pocket and my pants pocket. The shirt pocket was better, the pants, slightly muffled, depending on how far away the other person was. With the mike, I has in the front seat of my car, with someone talking in the seat next to me and in the back seat. All voices came through very well. I have not used it standing in the street talking with someone via a police encounter. I'll give that a try. All I can say now is that the mike option works well but is more likely to be seen. When it's in the pocket it's out of sight, but you lose some sound quality. Either way is far better than nothing.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  14. #14
    Regular Member dougwg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    MOC Charter Member Westland, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    2,445

    Post imported post

    mic

  15. #15
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,446

    Post imported post

    dougwg wrote:
    mic
    Quit being pedantic.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  16. #16
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    , ,
    Posts
    2

    Post imported post

    The law on recording in public is clear, though police try to distort it. Anything in a public location or vieweable from a public location is subject to be recorded or videotaped. Due to peace officer's working for the public, in public locations, they are also subject to being videotaped/recorded. This can sometimes be your best weapon for defense in a courtroom. I personally, would never turn off a recorder if confronted by police.

    The only restrictions on recording come from private locations open to the public. For example malls. This is open to the public, but is still private, and you can be asked to leave at any time for any reason, including videotaping. Therefore, if taping in a mall and asked to leave by security, you must cease recording and leave, or it could be considered trespassing.

    Just to reiterate, Anything in a public location or vieweable from a public location is subject to be recorded or videotaped. This includes public peace officers regardless of what they try to say.

    The most common one I have heard, is police say you can tape them, but the audio recording must be off....once again, not true, if in public, you do not need anyone's consent to videotape them, especially not police.

    Hope that helps, just make sure you know your rights, and can stand up for yourself during a confrontation. Police can be very intimidating, they know that they are intimidating, and will use this to their every advantage....know your rights and stand firm, if you let them begin pushing you around, they will exploit that as much as possible.

  17. #17
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    nerosrgn wrote:
    SNIP

    The only restrictions on recording come from private locations open to the public. For example malls. This is open to the public, but is still private, and you can be asked to leave at any time for any reason, including videotaping. Therefore, if taping in a mall and asked to leave by security, you must cease recording and leave, or it could be considered trespassing.
    Nero, can you please cite where you got this from (750.539c)? I don't recall seeing anything about this before. But, I suppose you could be asked to leave for a number of reasons. If you can cite, it should be added to Venators OC info thread.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •