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Recording Police

Rogue9er

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I've seen a lot of trouble lately about people who voice or video record the police, and who are told to stop. From what I understand, there's no reason why they shouldn't be recorded, but when they tell you to stop, that could be construed as a lawful order that must be obeyed. There's the recent mess in Pennsylvania, where PA Patriot's wife was ordered to stop filming, and youtube is full of such things.

So what's the rule?
 

sccrref

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What is allowed or not allowed varies from state to state. Some places it is okay as long as 1 party is aware of the recording (you). Other places require everyone to be notified. Google your state statutes/codes and then search within them for your state's applicable laws. Search returned nothingabout recording public conversations.

750.539c Eavesdropping upon private conversation.



Sec. 539c.

Any person who is present or who is not present during a private conversation and who wilfully uses any device to eavesdrop upon the conversation without the consent of all parties thereto, or who knowingly aids, employs or procures another person to do the same in violation of this section, is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


History: Add. 1966, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967
 

Venator

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Rogue9er wrote:
I've seen a lot of trouble lately about people who voice or video record the police, and who are told to stop. From what I understand, there's no reason why they shouldn't be recorded, but when they tell you to stop, that could be construed as a lawful order that must be obeyed. There's the recent mess in Pennsylvania, where PA Patriot's wife was ordered to stop filming, and youtube is full of such things.

So what's the rule?
If it's legal in your state as it is in Michigan and you were told to stop recording by an LEO, it WOULDNOT be a lawful order. There is no expectation of privacy in public places in Michigan. They can not ask you to stop recording in public or in your own home. If the police can record youthen by God you should be allowed to record them. We want things to be out in the open and not have secret police activities, that is a dangerous slope.
 

Venator

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dougwg wrote:
dougwg wrote:
Would love to have a definite answer to this.

Also, can we walk into a police station with a voice recorder? How about a video recorder?

I don't see why you couldn't. It's a public building and you are taping public servants serving the public. You wouldn't be allowed to record anything about an ongoing criminal investigation as that is protected. But you could record from the lobby of the police office and I would think you could record a conversation you are having with an LEO.

The only thing I have found on recording in Michigan is below:


Taping a conversation

Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539c: A private conversation legally cannot be overheard or recorded without the consent of all participants. Illegal eavesdropping can be punished as a felony carrying a jail term of up to two years and a fine of up to $2,000.

In addition, any individual who divulges information he knows, or reasonably should know, was obtained through illegal eavesdropping is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for up to two years and a fine of up to $2,000. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539e. Civil liability for actual and punitive damages also are sanctioned. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539h.

The eavesdropping statute has been interpreted by one court as applying only to situations in which a third party has intercepted a communication, an interpretation that makes it legal for a participant in a conversation to record that conversation without the permission of other parties. Sullivan v. Gray, 324 N.W.2d 58 (Mich. Ct. App. 1982).

The state supreme court stated in a July 1999 ruling that a participant in a conversation "may not unilaterally nullify other participants' expectations of privacy by secretly broadcasting the conversation" and that the overriding inquiry should be whether the parties "intended and reasonably expected that the conversation was private." Therefore, it is likely that a recording party may not broadcast a recorded conversation without the consent of all parties. Dickerson v. Raphael, 601 N.W.2d 108 (Mich.1999).

Under the Michigan statute, a parent may not vicariously consent to a recording for a minor child. Williams v. Williams, 603 N.W. 2d 114 (Mich. Ct. App. 1999).

It is a felony to observe, photograph or eavesdrop on a person in a private place without the person's consent. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539d. A private place is a place where one may reasonably expect to be safe from intrusion or surveillance, but not a place where the public has access. Mich. Comp. Laws § 750.539a.
 

Venator

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Just bought a clip on mike for my voice recorder. Cost about $25 at Radio Shack. Works great, I can run it under my shirt and clip near my collar and have the recorder in my pocket. I would only have this rigged if I was expecting trouble from LEO's, like an OCget together, etc... Normally I just have the voice recorder in my chest pocket.
 

dougwg

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sccrref wrote:
750.539c Eavesdropping upon private conversation.



Sec. 539c.

Any person who is present or who is not present during a private conversation and who wilfully uses any device to eavesdrop upon the conversation without the consent of all parties thereto, or who knowingly aids, employs or procures another person to do the same in violation of this section, is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


History: Add. 1966, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967

Just to clearify: Talking to a LEO during a "stop" is NOT a private conversation but rather a PUBLIC one and therefore legal.
 

Venator

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dougwg wrote:
sccrref wrote:
750.539c Eavesdropping upon private conversation.



Sec. 539c.

Any person who is present or who is not present during a private conversation and who wilfully uses any device to eavesdrop upon the conversation without the consent of all parties thereto, or who knowingly aids, employs or procures another person to do the same in violation of this section, is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment in a state prison for not more than 2 years or by a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.


History: Add. 1966, Act 319, Eff. Mar. 10, 1967

Just to clearify: Talking to a LEO during a "stop" is NOT a private conversation but rather a PUBLIC one and therefore legal.
So true, after all they are taping you, only fair that you can tape them. The only problem is that if an arrestis made and they find the tape it might "get lost" somehow. That's why I recommend not telling them you are recording or let them see the recorder if possible.
 

Greggy_D

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May 21, 2008
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Venator wrote:
Just bought a clip on mike for my voice recorder. Cost about $25 at Radio Shack. Works great, I can run it under my shirt and clip near my collar and have the recorder in my pocket. I would only have this rigged if I was expecting trouble from LEO's, like an OCget together, etc... Normally I just have the voice recorder in my chest pocket.
Did you compare the sound quality with/without the mike?
 

Venator

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Greggy_D wrote:
Venator wrote:
Just bought a clip on mike for my voice recorder. Cost about $25 at Radio Shack. Works great, I can run it under my shirt and clip near my collar and have the recorder in my pocket. I would only have this rigged if I was expecting trouble from LEO's, like an OCget together, etc... Normally I just have the voice recorder in my chest pocket.
Did you compare the sound quality with/without the mike?
Not directly. I have recored a conversation with the recorder in my shirt pocket and my pants pocket. The shirt pocket was better, the pants, slightly muffled, depending on how far away the other person was. With the mike, I has in the front seat of my car, with someone talking in the seat next to me and in the back seat. All voices came through very well. I have not used it standing in the street talking with someone via a police encounter. I'll give that a try. All I can say now is that the mike option works well but is more likely to be seen. When it's in the pocket it's out of sight, but you lose some sound quality. Either way is far better than nothing.
 

nerosrgn

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The law on recording in public is clear, though police try to distort it. Anything in a public location or vieweable from a public location is subject to be recorded or videotaped. Due to peace officer's working for the public, in public locations, they are also subject to being videotaped/recorded. This can sometimes be your best weapon for defense in a courtroom. I personally, would never turn off a recorder if confronted by police.

The only restrictions on recording come from private locations open to the public. For example malls. This is open to the public, but is still private, and you can be asked to leave at any time for any reason, including videotaping. Therefore, if taping in a mall and asked to leave by security, you must cease recording and leave, or it could be considered trespassing.

Just to reiterate, Anything in a public location or vieweable from a public location is subject to be recorded or videotaped. This includes public peace officers regardless of what they try to say.

The most common one I have heard, is police say you can tape them, but the audio recording must be off....once again, not true, if in public, you do not need anyone's consent to videotape them, especially not police.

Hope that helps, just make sure you know your rights, and can stand up for yourself during a confrontation. Police can be very intimidating, they know that they are intimidating, and will use this to their every advantage....know your rights and stand firm, if you let them begin pushing you around, they will exploit that as much as possible.
 

SpringerXDacp

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Burton, Michigan
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nerosrgn wrote:
SNIP

The only restrictions on recording come from private locations open to the public. For example malls. This is open to the public, but is still private, and you can be asked to leave at any time for any reason, including videotaping. Therefore, if taping in a mall and asked to leave by security, you must cease recording and leave, or it could be considered trespassing.
Nero, can you please cite where you got this from (750.539c)? I don't recall seeing anything about this before. But, I suppose you could be asked to leave for a number of reasons. If you can cite, it should be added to Venators OC info thread.
 
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