utbagpiper
Banned
imported post
Mostly off topic here, but it may well come up.
I trust all here have seen the reports of the triple-murder / suicide in SLC yesterday. KSL reports one of their stories at <http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3302744>.
While not reported here, channel 4 news last night did include an interview with the victim's father in which he read a letter from the victim in which she expressed fear for her safety. Part of that letter included a claim that the perp had a gun and a CCW permit.
I am told that court documents indicate the perp had previously held a CCW, but it was expired.
I also note that while we avoid speaking ill of the dead, or blaming victims, this is a case where the victims repeated refusals to accept help, or even admit to police that there was a potential problem cannot be dismissed even in deference to social niceties or good manners.
Not only did she choose to remain in a dangerous situation, but she kep her daughter there with her. There is no evidence she was held against her will. And whatever emotional or psychological issues may have been at playThere are also myriad laws on the books that would have helped her, and even removed the perps legal right to own a gun had she simply filed a complaint of domestic violence and sought a domestic violence protetive order. Of course, removing the legal right to own a gun is no guarantee a crime will not be committed with a gun.
But should the other side attempt to make any hay over the fact that this guy at one time had a CCW permit, the counter argument needs to be made very clearly that a single complaint by the victim would have quickly led to not only the loss of any permit he had (if it had not already expired), but also loss of his right to own guns at all.
BCI posts a lot of statistical data on permits at <http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFStat.html> and on crime in Utah at <http://bci.utah.gov/Stats/StatsHome.html>.
I note that in 2007, only about a dozen permits were revoked for felony convictions. About a dozen more were revoked for domestic violence convictions. That is a VERY impressive record considering there were just over 100,000 permits valid during 2007. So combining DV and felony convictions, we are at 12/100,000 or 0.012% of permit holders. You're probably more likely to find a permit holder with verifiable powers of ESP than to find one who has committed a felony or DV crime. In total, about 0.2% (2 of every 1000 permits valid) of permits are revoked in a typicl year for ALL reasons from violent felonies right on down to DUI, shoplifting, check kiting, etc.
The rate of CCW permit revocation in Utah compares quite favorably with the rate at which POST certified police officers have their certification revoked.
Just a few talking points and ammo in case this subject comes up in any other forums where you hang out, physically or virtually.
Charles
Mostly off topic here, but it may well come up.
I trust all here have seen the reports of the triple-murder / suicide in SLC yesterday. KSL reports one of their stories at <http://www.ksl.com/index.php?nid=148&sid=3302744>.
While not reported here, channel 4 news last night did include an interview with the victim's father in which he read a letter from the victim in which she expressed fear for her safety. Part of that letter included a claim that the perp had a gun and a CCW permit.
I am told that court documents indicate the perp had previously held a CCW, but it was expired.
I also note that while we avoid speaking ill of the dead, or blaming victims, this is a case where the victims repeated refusals to accept help, or even admit to police that there was a potential problem cannot be dismissed even in deference to social niceties or good manners.
Not only did she choose to remain in a dangerous situation, but she kep her daughter there with her. There is no evidence she was held against her will. And whatever emotional or psychological issues may have been at playThere are also myriad laws on the books that would have helped her, and even removed the perps legal right to own a gun had she simply filed a complaint of domestic violence and sought a domestic violence protetive order. Of course, removing the legal right to own a gun is no guarantee a crime will not be committed with a gun.
But should the other side attempt to make any hay over the fact that this guy at one time had a CCW permit, the counter argument needs to be made very clearly that a single complaint by the victim would have quickly led to not only the loss of any permit he had (if it had not already expired), but also loss of his right to own guns at all.
BCI posts a lot of statistical data on permits at <http://bci.utah.gov/CFP/CFStat.html> and on crime in Utah at <http://bci.utah.gov/Stats/StatsHome.html>.
I note that in 2007, only about a dozen permits were revoked for felony convictions. About a dozen more were revoked for domestic violence convictions. That is a VERY impressive record considering there were just over 100,000 permits valid during 2007. So combining DV and felony convictions, we are at 12/100,000 or 0.012% of permit holders. You're probably more likely to find a permit holder with verifiable powers of ESP than to find one who has committed a felony or DV crime. In total, about 0.2% (2 of every 1000 permits valid) of permits are revoked in a typicl year for ALL reasons from violent felonies right on down to DUI, shoplifting, check kiting, etc.
The rate of CCW permit revocation in Utah compares quite favorably with the rate at which POST certified police officers have their certification revoked.
Just a few talking points and ammo in case this subject comes up in any other forums where you hang out, physically or virtually.
Charles