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Thread: So today was the 47th Day

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    47 days ago today, (April 28th 2008) I filed for my CHP at the Fairfax County Courthouse. I've yet to receive anything in the mail regarding my permit, or a call on my contact #'s listed.

    So my question is...is the 45 day law 45 business days? 45 Calendar days?

    The week after I did submit an addendum to my permit (additional address verification) and spoke to the investigating officer listed on the Fairfax County website. Does that extend my date?

    Either way I have nothing that should prevent me from being granted a permit so I was surprised it even took this long. Since it's been 45 days do I now just go to the courthouse and ask for my temporary permit?

    Any advice?

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    It's 45 calender days. March down there and demand they issue you a temporary permit. The additional address verification was not legal in the first place.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    mellman wrote:
    SNIP Any advice?

    If the additional information was really just information that you should have provided in the first place, then you're still on the 45-day clock, I should think.

    A incompleteapplication is not acomplete application. If your application was really incomplete, they were doing you a favor by calling you rather than just tell you the permit is denied, try again.

    Carol Snow, the deputy clerk who handles CHP applications is just about the nicest person you could ever meet. Very helpful, very friendly. Save yourself a trip to the courthouse and call the Clerk's Office, ask for her, and just ask her if your's is just about finished. It may very well be next on the stack for mailing tomorrow.

    If she tells you its further off than you want to wait and the clock really is expired, then you can still drive to the court house and get a temporary permit. I would just save what might be an unnecessary trip.

    Edit to add: It just sank in what you might mean about the addendum. Address verification. Does that mean verification of your current address, like a utility bill or something? Its not in the law, but Fairfax in the past has required it, I think to establish that they have jurisdiction to issue the permit. If you meant 5-year address history, that would be different.

    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    I believe I met Carol, and she was great!

    I included a bill and car insurance statement with my original application, spoke to the investigator who said that probably wouldn't fly, so I provided a notarized letter that I live here (with my parents).

    Good Idea though - I will give her a call tomorrow and see if she is able to give me any information! Thanks for the tip!

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    mellman wrote:
    I believe I met Carol, and she was great!

    I included a bill and car insurance statement with my original application, spoke to the investigator who said that probably wouldn't fly, so I provided a notarized letter that I live here (with my parents).
    None of that is LEGALLY required. Your signing the application under penalty of perjury is all the address verification that's LEGALLY required. Based on what you submitted originally, they're overdue. Be firm when you call tomorrow...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    mellman wrote:
    I believe I met Carol, and she was great!

    I included a bill and car insurance statement with my original application, spoke to the investigator who said that probably wouldn't fly, so I provided a notarized letter that I live here (with my parents).
    None of that is LEGALLY required. Your signing the application under penalty of perjury is all the address verification that's LEGALLY required. Based on what you submitted originally, they're overdue. Be firm when you call tomorrow...
    Its not Carol. Its the judge. Its going to take a lawsuit to change it. We've been through this time and again over the last year and a half.

    Or the OC'er is going to have to go to an Ore Tenus hearing after his permit is denied for refusing to provide the information. Which is a little different here--he's already provided the information and could very well be within a couple days anyway of receiving his permit.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    While I agree that it may not be legally required...I provided it, I'm playing by their rules. I'm in no rush to get my permit...i still need to decide on a holster to CC with, and probably will be buying a different pistol to be my EDC, I just was curious what to do now. If i have to wait another few days I'm not bothered by it.

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    mellman wrote:
    While I agree that it may not be legally required...I provided it, I'm playing by their rules. I'm in no rush to get my permit...i still need to decide on a holster to CC with, and probably will be buying a different pistol to be my EDC, I just was curious what to do now. If i have to wait another few days I'm not bothered by it.
    Allowing public officials to violate the law, and your rights, unchallenged sets a terrible precedent, and is ALWAYS a bad idea.
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    I would print out the actual requirements from http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_...Concealed.shtm .

    specifically:

    "If Your Application is Not Complete within 45 Days If the court has not issued the permit or determined that the applicant is disqualified within 45 days of the date of receipt noted on the application, the clerk shall certify on the application that the 45-day period has expired, and send a copy of the certified application to the applicant. The certified application shall serve as a de facto permit, which shall expire 90 days after issuance, and shall be recognized as a valid concealed handgun permit when presented with a valid government-issued photo identificationuntil the court issues a five-year permit or finds the applicant to be disqualified."

    What they are doing seems to be illegal and ridiculous. In Charlottesville I handed in the paperwork and picked up my permit 4 days later. All I brought was the notorized application and my drivers license. Ask the clerk if she can certify the application expired the 45 day period and if she can give you a copy of it. Then you have your temporary permit.

    Edit, Also tell him there is no address verification, its a notorzied form.


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    Mellman -

    Please contact VCDL www.vcdl.organd inform them of your situation. Please do this even if today you get your CHP hand-delivered by the judge.

    The judge appears to be in violation of Va law both because of exceeding the time limit for acting on your CHP application, and because of the "additional address verification" bs you were made to go through.

    VCDL is well-versed in dealing with public officials who think they can step outside the law and step on your civil rights. The organization's approach is not to start out whooping and hollering in a big public display, but to attempt to educate the individual(s) and have them amend their ways so that there will never be a need to air the dirty laundry in public.

    stay safe.

    skidmark
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  11. #11
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    mellman wrote:
    47 days ago today, (April 28th 2008) I filed for my CHP at the Fairfax County Courthouse. I've yet to receive anything in the mail regarding my permit, or a call on my contact #'s listed.

    So my question is...is the 45 day law 45 business days? 45 Calendar days?

    The week after I did submit an addendum to my permit (additional address verification) and spoke to the investigating officer listed on the Fairfax County website. Does that extend my date?

    Either way I have nothing that should prevent me from being granted a permit so I was surprised it even took this long. Since it's been 45 days do I now just go to the courthouse and ask for my temporary permit?

    Any advice?
    Bluntly, sorry, my advice is to file a mandamus action to force the CLERK to "send" you your defacto permit.

    Your cooperation (I think if I read your notes correctly) as to "proof of address" information simply enables the CLERK to ghet away with breaking the law.

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    scarletwahoo wrote:
    In Charlottesville I handed in the paperwork and picked up my permit 4 days later.

    Are you in the city? I live just outside the city and dropped mine off at the Sheriff's office. Is there a different place to drop off the application for in-town residents? I have a friend in the citythat wants to get his permit and I didn't know where he needed to go.

    My permit is in the mail right now, but it took almost the whole 45 days. I finally called the clerk a few days ago to see what was up and she said it was ready and she would mail it out to me. I need to ask her if it really took that long to processor if they were just waiting as long as they could before giving it to me.

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    Nozoki wrote:
    My permit is in the mail right now, but it took almost the whole 45 days. I finally called the clerk a few days ago to see what was up and she said it was ready and she would mail it out to me. I need to ask her if it really took that long to processor if they were just waiting as long as they could before giving it to me.
    Fairfax County will issue the permit, then hold onto it and refuse to mail until it will arrive on the 45th day. Then, of course, it expires about a week less than 5 years after you receive it.

    I told Carol I'd just OC for a week. She laughed and said to remember to have a copy of the law in my pocket, if I planned to buy coffee in Herndon. (Northern VA in-joke, there)

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    Nozoki wrote:
    Are you in the city? I live just outside the city and dropped mine off at the Sheriff's office. Is there a different place to drop off the application for in-town residents? I have a friend in the citythat wants to get his permit and I didn't know where he needed to go.
    Yes, I am in the city, if your address is in the city limits, you have to go to the city circuit court. It's right by the downtown mall. They seemed really friendly there and everything was quick. If he does it on a monday, there is a good chance he can pick it up that friday.

    google map of it

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    So 45 days is 45 days, i.e. they are to mail it several days before the 45th day? I could understand (it's the gov't...they'll be slow) being 45 days, and mailing it on the 45th day hence the waiting.

    Didn't have a chance to call today, will do so in the morning.

    Thanks for all the replies, I'll be contacting the vcdl (which I'm a member of) regardless



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    Thanks for the info Scarletwahoo!

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    It's 45 calender days. March down there and demand they issue you a temporary permit. The additional address verification was not legal in the first place.
    Fairfax seems to be purposely dragging their feet, Loudoun is processing in 2 weeks. The real proof is see when it was signed, and why is taking two plus weeks from signature to being mailed out. I would call Carol up and ask when it was signed and drop by for a temp permit, which your entitled to by law.

    Hope this helps,

    --Olivers_AR



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    I just got offt he phone with Carol Snow - indeed very nice.
    Apparently the judges were all out last weekbut it was sent up to be signed on Friday.

    I've been super busy with work & buying a house so I have not had a chance to go down and pickup a temp permit, however I will be contacting the VCDL with all of this information.

    She is going to call me on Wednesday when it's signed and I will be able to go down to the courthouse and pick it up.


    yay!

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    The time limit is 45 calendar days as long as the last day does not end on a weekend or holiday. A couple months ago my the power went out while I was on my computer and I lost a bunch of recently saved shortcuts. One was for a copy of a Virginia code section that basically says that if a time limit runs out on a holiday or weekend that the number of days that the agency is closed will be added to the deadline. for example if the 45 day deadline for your permit runs out on a Saturday I believe the deadline is extended to the following Tuesday.If the deadline is on Sunday the new deadline is Monday. So the 45 days could really be 48 days if Saturday is the deadline and Monday is a holiday or 49 days if the deadline is Thanksgiving day.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    mobeewan wrote:
    The time limit is 45 calendar days as long as the last day does not end on a weekend or holiday. A couple months ago my the power went out while I was on my computer and I lost a bunch of recently saved shortcuts. One was for a copy of a Virginia code section that basically says that if a time limit runs out on a holiday or weekend that the number of days that the agency is closed will be added to the deadline. for example if the 45 day deadline for your permit runs out on a Saturday I believe the deadline is extended to the following Tuesday.If the deadline is on Sunday the new deadline is Monday. So the 45 days could really be 48 days if Saturday is the deadline and Monday is a holiday or 49 days if the deadline is Thanksgiving day.
    There's no excuse for not having it done way before it gets to that point though.
    James Reynolds

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    I agree. If some localities can get permits issued in less than 2 weeks, then there is no justified reason other localities cannot do it too. I was just pointing out that even though the law says 45 days it could legally be longer.
    Revelation 1911 - And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

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    today is day 45 for me and my renewal. The mail arrives between 2PM and 3PM here, so if not in today, I'll Carol a call tomorrow and ask for her assistence.

    How did we get such a sweet advocate inside the courthouses? Sounds like Carol is a gem of a find.
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    mellman wrote:
    I just got offt he phone with Carol Snow - indeed very nice.
    Apparently the judges were all out last weekbut it was sent up to be signed on Friday.

    I've been super busy with work & buying a house so I have not had a chance to go down and pickup a temp permit, however I will be contacting the VCDL with all of this information.

    She is going to call me on Wednesday when it's signed and I will be able to go down to the courthouse and pick it up.


    yay!
    There was a Judicial Conference last week (12th - 16th). I know the City of Alexandria Circuit Court was affected, thus would believe that Fairfax was as well. (Other courts, such as General District Court. Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court, or both of them, are not necessarily on the same track as Circuit Court for Judicial Conferences.)

    No (routine) Orders were being signed that week; I've yet to have an emergency during a Judicial Conference week, but presume that a substitute Judge can be pulled in on such emergency matters. (the permit, however, is most likely NOT considered an emergency matter).

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    ChinChin wrote:
    today is day 45 for me and my renewal. The mail arrives between 2PM and 3PM here, so if not in today, I'll Carol a call tomorrow and ask for her assistence.

    How did we get such a sweet advocate inside the courthouses? Sounds like Carol is a gem of a find.
    If she is who I am thinking of, she's an NRA member and has her own permit.

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    Lysander wrote:
    mellman wrote:
    I just got offt he phone with Carol Snow - indeed very nice.
    Apparently the judges were all out last weekbut it was sent up to be signed on Friday.

    I've been super busy with work & buying a house so I have not had a chance to go down and pickup a temp permit, however I will be contacting the VCDL with all of this information.

    She is going to call me on Wednesday when it's signed and I will be able to go down to the courthouse and pick it up.


    yay!
    There was a Judicial Conference last week (12th - 16th). I know the City of Alexandria Circuit Court was affected, thus would believe that Fairfax was as well. (Other courts, such as General District Court. Juvenile and Domestic Relations District Court, or both of them, are not necessarily on the same track as Circuit Court for Judicial Conferences.)

    No (routine) Orders were being signed that week; I've yet to have an emergency during a Judicial Conference week, but presume that a substitute Judge can be pulled in on such emergency matters. (the permit, however, is most likely NOT considered an emergency matter).
    Neither is the judicial conference. They knew when it was, and knew when the permit was due. The law says 45 days, not 45 days unless you're busy...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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