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Thread: What to say to an LEO who wants to "run the numbers" on your gun?

  1. #1
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    According to the ORC, an LEO has the authority to take possession of your gun if he detains you while you're CCW-ing. I don't like it, but it's the law, and I guess I have to live with it.

    But what about OC?

    Say I'm OC-ing on the sidewalk and a cop stops me. He tells me to hand over my gun so he can "run the numbers" on it to see if I'm legally allowed to possess a firearm, or to see if the gun is stolen, or whatever. Should Icomply? Do I have to comply? What if I refuse?

  2. #2
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    Ohio Patriot wrote:
    According to the ORC, an LEO has the authority to take possession of your gun if he detains you while you're CCW-ing. I don't like it, but it's the law, and I guess I have to live with it.

    But what about OC?

    Say I'm OC-ing on the sidewalk and a cop stops me. He tells me to hand over my gun so he can "run the numbers" on it to see if I'm legally allowed to possess a firearm, or to see if the gun is stolen, or whatever. Should Icomply? Do I have to comply? What if I refuse?
    You should become familiar with 4th Amendment court cases. You'll find it very helpful. Your 4th Amendment rights are defined in court opinions. Knowing them will give you a high degree of certainty about what police may and may not do.

    Here is a distillation by an attorney:

    Because it is legal in most states to carry a handgun if properly licensed, a report that an individual possesses a handgun, without any additional information suggesting criminal activity, might not create reasonable suspicion that a crime is being or will be committed.1 Where simply carrying a handgun is not in itself illegal and does not constitute probable cause to arrest,2 it follows that carrying a handgun, in and of itself, does not furnish reasonable suspicion justifying a Terry stop. The same applies to persons in motor vehicles. An investigatory stop is only justified when the police have "a reasonable suspicion, based on specific, articulable facts and reasonable inferences there from," that the subject "had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime."3 (emphasis Citizen's)

    http://tinyurl.com/yofhgg

    The entire article is very informative.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  3. #3
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    Ohio Patriot wrote:
    According to the ORC, an LEO has the authority to take possession of your gun if he detains you while you're CCW-ing. I don't like it, but it's the law, and I guess I have to live with it.

    But what about OC?

    Say I'm OC-ing on the sidewalk and a cop stops me. He tells me to hand over my gun so he can "run the numbers" on it to see if I'm legally allowed to possess a firearm, or to see if the gun is stolen, or whatever. Should Icomply? Do I have to comply? What if I refuse?

    I just realized I didn't answer your questions.

    ALWAYS COMPLY. You can always sort it out later.

    ALWAYS REFUSE CONSENT.

    "Officer, I will comply with your demand, however, I do not consent."

    He probably isn't going to ask you to hand it over. He's probably going to take it from your holster. Perhaps with a request to do so, or an alert to you that he is going to do so.

    I don't know the criminal penalties for resisting a police officer in your state. Obstruction of justice? Even if it gets thrown out later, why get charged in the first place.

    If nothing else, you're liable to eat pavement or experience 30-50 taser kilo-volts, or both. Its not worth it.

    Plus, once you're free of his interference, it will be your turn. Formal complaints and lawsuits work better if you were cooperative and so forth (but don't be so cooperative that you also consent, unless you decide you want to based on the exact cop in front of you at that exact time on that exact day.)
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  4. #4
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    NEVER unholster and hand your weapon to any LEO!!!

    Always let him take it!

    (without your consent, of course)

    Too easy for someone to say you pulled your gun on them, and it would be technically correct. It can only get ugly from there.


  5. #5
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    Citizen wrote:
    Ohio Patriot wrote:
    According to the ORC, an LEO has the authority to take possession of your gun if he detains you while you're CCW-ing. I don't like it, but it's the law, and I guess I have to live with it.

    But what about OC?

    Say I'm OC-ing on the sidewalk and a cop stops me. He tells me to hand over my gun so he can "run the numbers" on it to see if I'm legally allowed to possess a firearm, or to see if the gun is stolen, or whatever. Should Icomply? Do I have to comply? What if I refuse?
    You should become familiar with 4th Amendment court cases. You'll find it very helpful. Your 4th Amendment rights are defined in court opinions. Knowing them will give you a high degree of certainty about what police may and may not do.

    Here is a distillation by an attorney:

    Because it is legal in most states to carry a handgun if properly licensed, a report that an individual possesses a handgun, without any additional information suggesting criminal activity, might not create reasonable suspicion that a crime is being or will be committed.1 Where simply carrying a handgun is not in itself illegal and does not constitute probable cause to arrest,2 it follows that carrying a handgun, in and of itself, does not furnish reasonable suspicion justifying a Terry stop. The same applies to persons in motor vehicles. An investigatory stop is only justified when the police have "a reasonable suspicion, based on specific, articulable facts and reasonable inferences there from," that the subject "had committed, was committing, or was about to commit a crime."3 (emphasis Citizen's)

    http://tinyurl.com/yofhgg

    The entire article is very informative.
    Citizen, be CAREFUL...LEO is sneaking around the corner tiptoeing to get a PEAK at you SN:shock:......:celebrate

    TJ

  6. #6
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    The above-mentioned law also requires an LEO to return the weapon at the end of any such stop if the person is not charged with anything. None of this "you can pick it up at the property room in a couple of days/decades" nonsense.

    -ljp

  7. #7
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    Don't forget the "armed and presently dangerous" part of Terry to justify the light pat down. Reasonable articulable suspicion just justifies the stop - not the pat down.



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