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Thread: Man opens fire outside California church

  1. #1
    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/05/17/chu....ap/index.html

    LOS ANGELES, California (AP)[/b] -- A man with a semiautomatic rifle opened fire at a festival outside a Southern California church Saturday, wounding three people, one of them critically, police said.

    Shots rang out shortly before 11 a.m. outside St. John Baptist de la Salle, a Roman Catholic church in Granada Hills, Officer Norma Eisenman said. Bystanders tackled the man and held him until he was taken into police custody, she said.

    "He was tackled by an off-duty Burbank police officer" and taken into custody by Los Angeles police, she said.

    The gunman wounded three people, including a female who was shot in the elbow, Eisenman said. Two people were taken to a hospital in stable condition and one was in critical condition, she said.

    Fire Department spokesman Brian Humphrey said another person was treated for chest pains.

    The motive for the attack was not immediately known, Eisenman said.

    Church officials did not immediately return calls for comment.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    And this has what to do with VA or OC?
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    And this has what to do with VA or OC?
    It has to do with being more fuel for the "Guns are Bad" people, whatver state they may be in.

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    Campaign Veteran roscoe13's Avatar
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    vbnative73 wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    And this has what to do with VA or OC?
    It has to do with being more fuel for the "Guns are Bad" people, whatver state they may be in.
    We have a news section & a general discussion section on this site for a reason...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    Regular Member vbnative73's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    vbnative73 wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    And this has what to do with VA or OC?
    It has to do with being more fuel for the "Guns are Bad" people, whatver state they may be in.
    We have a news section & a general discussion section on this site for a reason...
    Point taken.

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    roscoe13 wrote:
    And this has what to do with VA or OC?
    It has to do with the fact that Joe Citizen cannot open carry a loaded weapon in California and protect himself or others in this sort of situation.

    Tarzan

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    Good that it's not an "assault weapon", or at least I assume the media would have reported it as such.

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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Good that it's not an "assault weapon", or at least I assume the media would have reported it as such.
    actually, using recent legal cases posted here, and the opinions of teh gun grabbers, they said "semi automatic rifle". therefore, it was a machine gun. the term "assault rifle" has now been bumped down in the heirarchy to " anything that they can't say is a mchine gun..."



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    Campaign Veteran deepdiver's Avatar
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    Shooting most likely a domestic violence case

    This obviously never happened as CA is one of the most restrictive firearms states in the Union.

    From the linked article:
    As the drama was unfolding, security guard William Griffin, who was watching the festival entrance, said dozens of people suddenly came running toward him."I heard someone yell, 'Somebody's shooting. Somebody's shooting.' I turned and saw a man with a long rifle. He was very calm," Griffin said.The guard said he quickly began herding people into the church, then began locking the doors. The man who had been shot in the leg calmly limped in with the others, he said.
    Well, that certainly was helpful. So he he essentially acted as a janitor?
    Bob Owens @ Bearing Arms (paraphrased): "These people aren't against violence; they're very much in favor of violence. They're against armed resistance."

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    More like an usher

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    And this has what to do with VA or OC?
    Virginia hasa stupidlaw which place restrictions upon carrying firearms in a place of worship.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Founder's Club Member OC-Glock19's Avatar
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    To stop these ever-increasing church shootings, the obvious answer is to ban church gatherings.



    (Makes as much sense as banning "assault weapons".)

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    OC-Glock19 wrote:
    To stop these ever-increasing church shootings, the obvious answer is to ban church gatherings.
    Well, actually...

    Eh, I'll avoid that topic.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Thundar wrote:
    Virginia hasa stupidlaw which place restrictions upon carrying firearms in a place of worship.
    Actually, that is not entirely correct:
    § 18.2-283. Carrying dangerous weapon to place of religious worship.

    If any person carry any gun, pistol, bowie knife, dagger or other dangerous weapon, without good and sufficient reason, to a place of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held at such place he shall be guilty of a Class 4 misdemeanor.

    (Code 1950, § 18.1-241; 1960, c. 358; 1962, c. 411; 1975, cc. 14, 15.)
    The restriction is for carrying while a meeting for religious purposes is being held and is qualified by without good and sufficient reason.

    The spate of shootings at churches recently probably qualifies as "good and sufficient reason."

    The history of Virginia law regarding guns and religious services is quite interesting. The Petition of Right (1628), which set out the rights and responsibilities of the colonists, included
    ACT XLI.


    " It is enacted and confirmed that masters of every family shall bring with them to church on Sondays one fixed and serviceable gun with suficient powder and shott vpon penalty of ten pound of tobacco for every master of a family so offending to be disposed of by the churchwardens who shall levy it by distresse, and servants being commanded and yet omitting shall receive twenty lashes on his or theire bare shoulders, by order from the county courts where he or they shall live."
    Apparently even back in the days of wild Indians and marurading Frenchmen Virginians were aware that there might be "good and sufficient reason" to bring a gun to church." :celebrate

    stay safe.

    skidmark

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    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    imperialism2024 wrote:
    Good that it's not an "assault weapon", or at least I assume the media would have reported it as such.
    They'll get around to it, give 'em time. They always do.
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    skidmark wrote:
    Apparently even back in the days of wild Indians and marurading Frenchmen Virginians were aware that there might be "good and sufficient reason" to bring a gun to church." :celebrate

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    actually, this reminds me of an interesting thing I learned as regards to history.

    the reason that a groom traditionally stands to the right of his bride in a wedding ceremony ( which throughout history have mainly been held at churches) is so that as the bride and groom stand before the preacher arm in arm, that the grooms weapon weilding hand is free. In mideival times, of course, this would have been a sword, but as time passed, eventually the gun eplaced the sword as a primary defensive weapon. remember, that as late as the late 19th century/ early 20th, armed citizens were the norm ( especially in rural areas)

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    unreconstructed1 wrote:
    skidmark wrote:
    Apparently even back in the days of wild Indians and marurading Frenchmen Virginians were aware that there might be "good and sufficient reason" to bring a gun to church." :celebrate

    stay safe.

    skidmark
    actually, this reminds me of an interesting thing I learned as regards to history.

    the reason that a groom traditionally stands to the right of his bride in a wedding ceremony ( which throughout history have mainly been held at churches) is so that as the bride and groom stand before the preacher arm in arm, that the grooms weapon weilding hand is free. In mideival times, of course, this would have been a sword, but as time passed, eventually the gun eplaced the sword as a primary defensive weapon. remember, that as late as the late 19th century/ early 20th, armed citizens were the norm ( especially in rural areas)
    This is fascinating information. If you have a link to substantiate that data, I would bevery appreciative.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Flintlock wrote:
    This is fascinating information. If you have a link to substantiate that data, I would bevery appreciative.


    well, I read it in a book a number of years ago, actually. I can't remember the name of it, but it dealt with the origins of a lot of modern day traditions. I'll have to research and see if I can find you a source online.


    edit: ok, lets try these and see if they are source enough. If you need something more substantial, I'll research a little better tommorow.

    http://www.essortment.com/all/originswedding_rrnp.htm
    The brides placement to the left— When a bridegroom secured his bride and prepared to marry her, she was placed to his left in order to protect her, leaving his right hand free for swordplay if need be.
    http://www.infoplease.com/spot/weddinglore1.html

    Bride on Groom's Left

    Because grooms in Anglo-Saxon England often had to defend their brides, the bride would stand to the left of her groom so that his sword arm was free.
    http://www.aomdj.com/traditio.htm

      • Bride on the left, Groom on the right:


      When the groom fought off warriors who also wanted his bride, he would hold onto her with his left hand, while fighting them off with his sword in his right hand (we suppose there were no Southpaws in those days of yore), which is why the bride stands on the left, and the groom on the right.


    a somewhat different take on the subject:

    http://www.hudsonvalleyweddings.com/guide/customs.htm

    Traditionally, the bride stands to the left side of the groom. This was much more than meaningless etiquette. Among the Northern European barbarians (a name given to them by the Romans), a groom placed his captured bride to his left to protect her, as he kept his right hand free to use for defense. Also originating from this practice of abduction, which literally swept a bride off her feet, sprang the later symbolic act of carrying the bride across the threshold of her new home. And speaking of carrying the bride over the threshold, tradition dictates that the bride must never trip and fall as she enters her new home or she will have bad luck for all the years to come.
    [/quote]
    this is what I have found online regarding the subject. I assume you were reffering to the tradition as opposed to my statements concerning carry being more prevalent in the late 19th/early 20th century...



  19. #19
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Yes, thank you for finding the info. I was curious about the tradition and where it derived from and I did not know the history.

    Interesting.


    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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