Ok I live in Macomb County, Clinton TownShip. Can I carry open???
Ok I live in Macomb County, Clinton TownShip. Can I carry open???
[align=left]I don't have a CCW. How can I legally transport a pistol in a motor vehicle?
A:
The law changed in March of 2002 from the old "to and from" rules. You may now transport a pistol for any lawful purpose as long as it is stored correctly. The new law defines "lawful purpose" to include the old "to and from" rules but those are only examples of lawful purposes and do not exclude other lawful purposes. Remember, a pistol carried in the passenger compartment of a vehicle, except under the circumstances below where there is no trunk, will be considered concealed, whether it is in plain view or not. The proper way to transport a pistol in a vehicle if you do not hold a CPL permit.
The pistol must be:
unloaded;
registered (has had a "safety inspection") to the owner of the motor vehicle or to an occupant of the motor vehicle in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms; and in the trunk, or for a vehicle which does not have a trunk, where the closed case designed for the storage of firearms is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle. [/align]
750.231a Exceptions to § 750.227(2); definitions.
Sec. 231a.
(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.
(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
(2) As used in this section:
(a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:
(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.
(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
(b) “Lawful purpose” includes the following:
(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.
(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.
(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.
(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.
(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
History: Add. 1964, Act 215, Eff. Aug. 28, 1964 ;-- Am. 1973, Act 191, Eff. Mar. 29, 1974 ;-- Am. 1974, Act 55, Imd. Eff. Apr. 1, 1974 ;-- Am. 1978, Act 280, Imd. Eff. July 6, 1978 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 82, Imd. Eff. Mar. 26, 2002
Hey there! I'm Greggy_D and a new member to the forum. I'm a bit confused about a non-CPL'er driving with a pistol in their trunk, let's say....to an Open Carry meet.
Over on the MCRGO site, the FAQ section implies that the law changed and the examples in the post above mineare just that....examples.
Here's the link:
http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp
Here's the Q/A:
[align=left]I don't have a CCW. How can I legally transport a pistol in a motor vehicle?
A:
The law changed in March of 2002 from the old "to and from" rules. You may now transport a pistol for any lawful purpose as long as it is stored correctly. The new law defines "lawful purpose" to include the old "to and from" rules but those are only examples of lawful purposes and do not exclude other lawful purposes. Remember, a pistol carried in the passenger compartment of a vehicle, except under the circumstances below where there is no trunk, will be considered concealed, whether it is in plain view or not. The proper way to transport a pistol in a vehicle if you do not hold a CPL permit.
The pistol must be:
unloaded;
registered (has had a "safety inspection") to the owner of the motor vehicle or to an occupant of the motor vehicle in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms; and in the trunk, or for a vehicle which does not have a trunk, where the closed case designed for the storage of firearms is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle. [/align]
What does the ACTUAL LAW say, as opposed to the State Police Web Site (which may not be correct)?
Pretty simple, you can now transport your unloaded handgun (in trunk, etc)almost any where for all lawful purposes, including self defense. What's not clear is the term to and from private property. What we think this means is you could not park in any public lots, streets, or meters. You could go to the walmart lot as that is private. So the ambiguity is the phrasing of that last lawful purpose. Others mean it to say that you can transport anywhere with the public places implied and ALSO private property. Which is correct I don't know. Next week I'll ask a firearms law instructor at Cooley law school for his take.Found the law:
750.231a Exceptions to § 750.227(2); definitions.
Sec. 231a.
(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:
(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.
(b) To the regular and ordinary transportation of pistols as merchandise by an authorized agent of a person licensed to manufacture firearms.
(c) To a person carrying an antique firearm as defined in subsection (2), completely unloaded in a closed case or container designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of a vehicle.
(d) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in the trunk of the vehicle.
(e) To a person while transporting a pistol for a lawful purpose that is licensed by the owner or occupant of the motor vehicle in compliance with section 2 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.422, and the pistol is unloaded in a closed case designed for the storage of firearms in a vehicle that does not have a trunk and is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.
(2) As used in this section:
(a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:
(i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after 1898.
(ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
(b) “Lawful purpose” includes the following:
(i) While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
(ii) While transporting a pistol en route to or from his or her home or place of business and place of repair.
(iii) While moving goods from 1 place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.
(iv) While transporting a licensed pistol en route to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed on the pistol as is required by section 9 of 1927 PA 372, MCL 28.429, or for the purpose of having a law enforcement official take possession of the weapon.
(v) While en route to or from his or her abode or place of business and a gun show or places of purchase or sale.
(vi) While en route to or from his or her abode to a public shooting facility or public land where discharge of firearms is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
(vii) While en route to or from his or her abode to a private property location where the pistol is to be used as is permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
History: Add. 1964, Act 215, Eff. Aug. 28, 1964 ;-- Am. 1973, Act 191, Eff. Mar. 29, 1974 ;-- Am. 1974, Act 55, Imd. Eff. Apr. 1, 1974 ;-- Am. 1978, Act 280, Imd. Eff. July 6, 1978 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 82, Imd. Eff. Mar. 26, 2002
Note the "lawful purpose" INCLUDES examplesbut is not all-inclusive. Also note the language of the law does NOT usethe word "MEANS" as it does in the subsection above the "lawful purpose" subsection. (“Antique firearm” means either of the following)
I'm willing to write my State Rep to ask the Attorney General for absolute clarification.
Go for it. Post a date or two and see who can make it. Then go from there. Cookout are always a good idea, but we have had a couple of get togethers at McDonalds (winter time) at lunch-time that way you get a lot of people coming and going and can get the message out to more people. If there is a park near the PD, we could meet there. Also I see you sent in the info packet to your local LEO's, that's a start.i know i have said this before in another thread BUT
i definately think it is time to have a gathering/cookout in Macomb County
i would like to toss my hat in the ring for planning/prep help for such an event. especially after my chat with the LEO here in Macomb County.
Right now I don't have a CCW but I was wondering about the daily transportation of firearms in my mini-van.
My first question is can I keep the magazines loaded and stored in the glove box.
In the past I use to keep them in their own pistol tote case but my friends told me that I might be asking for trouble if I was stopped and a law enforcement officer happened to see the pistol case because it is in plain sight in the storage basket between the front seats.
I keep the handgun in a tote case near the back door in an open wooden box that contains some of my shooting gear. I store ammo for the rifles and shotgun in there as well as targets, spotting scopes, cleaning kits, knives, and rope. I almost always have a rifle, or pistol in my van except at night when I bring them into my house. Of course they are not loaded. My second question is: am I in compliance.
I thought that I read somewhere that in a mini-van you had to keep the handgun stored in a locked case or tool box that was locked.
After I obtain my CCW will I be able to keep rifles and shotguns loaded in my van or will I only be able to keep the handguns loaded. I've been looking at getting one of the AK-47 underfolders because they are classified as handguns in Michigan.
Along with what SpringerXDacp said, be very careful with that underfolder. I know a lot of people are selling and buying them, but the ones I've seen are under 26" making them a SBR, and therefore illegal. Check the Michigan section of ar15.com for threads on them....
After I obtain my CCW will I be able to keep rifles and shotguns loaded in my van or will I only be able to keep the handguns loaded. I've been looking at getting one of the AK-47 underfolders because they are classified as handguns in Michigan.
DickTracy1953 wrote:Along with what SpringerXDacp said, be very careful with that underfolder. I know a lot of people are selling and buying them, but the ones I've seen are under 26" making them a SBR, and therefore illegal. Check the Michigan section of ar15.com for threads on them....
After I obtain my CCW will I be able to keep rifles and shotguns loaded in my van or will I only be able to keep the handguns loaded. I've been looking at getting one of the AK-47 underfolders because they are classified as handguns in Michigan.
It seems that the law remains silent as to the storage of any loaded magazines or ammunition stored in speed loaders during transportation of firearms in your car, van or truck.
The reason I keep the magazines loaded is so that when I go to holster my handgun I do not waste time loading the magazine which would defeat the purpose of open carrying because you are most at risk when you are out of your vehicle fumbling around.
I am going to sign up for the CCW class to make my life a whole lot easier. You guys seem to be right on the mark about the instructors of the CCW classes telling people not to allow anyone to see that they are carrying. They inform the class that open carry is brandishing unless you are at a shooting range, at your place of business, at your home, or hunting.
DickTracy1953 wrote:
It seems that the law remains silent as to the storage of any loaded magazines or ammunition stored in speed loaders during transportation of firearms in your car, van or truck.
The reason I keep the magazines loaded is so that when I go to holster my handgun I do not waste time loading the magazine which would defeat the purpose of open carrying because you are most at risk when you are out of your vehicle fumbling around.
I am going to sign up for the CCW class to make my life a whole lot easier. You guys seem to be right on the mark about the instructors of the CCW classes telling people not to allow anyone to see that they are carrying. They inform the class that open carry is brandishing unless you are at a shooting range, at your place of business, at your home, or hunting.
Mule Muffins.....:banghead:
With apologies to the forum, that's BULLSH!T!!
Also as told to me by the ATF in Det: There are no regulations per-say on ammo, except it has to be transported safely in a closed container in the trunk or pickup box. I know this because I called them about it 5yrs ago. I made an ammo run down to Cabella's and bought 4,000rnds. of ammo. So I wouldn't exactly worry about transporting ammo.
i would like to direct you to the article published in the Flint Journal from our 6-14-08 open carry picnic in a PUBLIC park.Ok I live in Macomb County, Clinton TownShip. Can I carry open???