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Open Carry
- Thread starter vtwjmsw
- Start date
adam40cal
Regular Member
imported post
You can open carry in any county.
You can open carry in any county.
WARCHILD
Regular Member
imported post
vtwjmsw wrote:
You can open carry just about anywhere in the state. BEFORE you do, review the threads and read the restrictions applied to OC, there are many and you MUST be aware of them before you OC. You did not state if you have a CPL or not, I will assume by your question, that you do not. This restricts you carry ability greatly. Therefor I would recomend you not carry until you are familiar with the restrictions. After that, as I have said on the radio show-- STAY INFORMED, STAY ARMED, AND STAY SAFE.
Oh, and welcome to OCDO--- :celebrate
vtwjmsw wrote:
You can open carry just about anywhere in the state. BEFORE you do, review the threads and read the restrictions applied to OC, there are many and you MUST be aware of them before you OC. You did not state if you have a CPL or not, I will assume by your question, that you do not. This restricts you carry ability greatly. Therefor I would recomend you not carry until you are familiar with the restrictions. After that, as I have said on the radio show-- STAY INFORMED, STAY ARMED, AND STAY SAFE.
Oh, and welcome to OCDO--- :celebrate
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
vtwjmsw wrote:
As war child mentioned if you DO NOT have a CPL you are limited in and where you can transport a handgun. The law defines lawful purposes in regards to transport without a CPL. The definitions are below. Recently they add the lass one that allows you to transport from your house to private property. We have interpreted this to mean from your house to a a private business or lands, etc. We also think that you could not transport and then park at a public place, (public Lots, meters, ramps, etc).
2) If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law. [/b]
Michigan[/b] [/b]State Police Web Site[/b]. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle?
Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose[/b] if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’[/b] as:
1)[/b] While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
2)[/b] While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.
3)[/b] While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.
4)[/b] While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.
5)[/b] While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.
6)[/b] While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.
7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. [/b]
vtwjmsw wrote:
As war child mentioned if you DO NOT have a CPL you are limited in and where you can transport a handgun. The law defines lawful purposes in regards to transport without a CPL. The definitions are below. Recently they add the lass one that allows you to transport from your house to private property. We have interpreted this to mean from your house to a a private business or lands, etc. We also think that you could not transport and then park at a public place, (public Lots, meters, ramps, etc).
2) If you don’t have a CPL, you must transport your handgun as prescribe by law. [/b]
Michigan[/b] [/b]State Police Web Site[/b]. Transporting a pistol in a motor vehicle?
Answer A person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose[/b] if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle. The law defines ‘lawful purpose’[/b] as:
1)[/b] While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
2)[/b] While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.
3)[/b] While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.
4)[/b] While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.
5)[/b] While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.
6)[/b] While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.
7) While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance. [/b]
Greggy_D
Regular Member
imported post
Hey there! I'm Greggy_D and a new member to the forum. I'm a bit confused about a non-CPL'er driving with a pistol in their trunk, let's say....to an Open Carry meet.
Over on the MCRGO site, the FAQ section implies that the law changed and the examples in the post above mineare just that....examples.
Here's the link:
http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp
Here's the Q/A:
What does the ACTUAL LAW say, as opposed to the State Police Web Site (which may not be correct)?
Hey there! I'm Greggy_D and a new member to the forum. I'm a bit confused about a non-CPL'er driving with a pistol in their trunk, let's say....to an Open Carry meet.
Over on the MCRGO site, the FAQ section implies that the law changed and the examples in the post above mineare just that....examples.
Here's the link:
http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp
Here's the Q/A:
What does the ACTUAL LAW say, as opposed to the State Police Web Site (which may not be correct)?
Greggy_D
Regular Member
imported post
Found the law:
Note the "lawful purpose" INCLUDES examplesbut is not all-inclusive. Also note the language of the law does NOT usethe word "MEANS" as it does in the subsection above the "lawful purpose" subsection. (“Antique firearm” means either of the following)
I'm willing to write my State Rep to ask the Attorney General for absolute clarification.
Found the law:
Note the "lawful purpose" INCLUDES examplesbut is not all-inclusive. Also note the language of the law does NOT usethe word "MEANS" as it does in the subsection above the "lawful purpose" subsection. (“Antique firearm” means either of the following)
I'm willing to write my State Rep to ask the Attorney General for absolute clarification.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
Greggy_D wrote:
The change was number 7. You can transport your legal handgun from you home to any private property where the use of the gun is legal. This means you can transport from your home and park on private property, like a business, friends, but, our interpretation isyou can't park at a public place like a meter, or a public street or public parking lot. You can park on public land incident to hunting, target practice, etc. The example above is pretty close, except for the public parking aspect. If you do not have a CPL you have to have the gun unloaded in the truck or in a case away from the occupants in a vehicle without a trunk (like a van, pick-up, etc.
Clear? Clearer?
Greggy_D wrote:
The change was number 7. You can transport your legal handgun from you home to any private property where the use of the gun is legal. This means you can transport from your home and park on private property, like a business, friends, but, our interpretation isyou can't park at a public place like a meter, or a public street or public parking lot. You can park on public land incident to hunting, target practice, etc. The example above is pretty close, except for the public parking aspect. If you do not have a CPL you have to have the gun unloaded in the truck or in a case away from the occupants in a vehicle without a trunk (like a van, pick-up, etc.
Clear? Clearer?
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
Greggy_D wrote:
Greggy_D wrote:
Pretty simple, you can now transport your unloaded handgun (in trunk, etc)almost any where for all lawful purposes, including self defense. What's not clear is the term to and from private property. What we think this means is you could not park in any public lots, streets, or meters. You could go to the walmart lot as that is private. So the ambiguity is the phrasing of that last lawful purpose. Others mean it to say that you can transport anywhere with the public places implied and ALSO private property. Which is correct I don't know. Next week I'll ask a firearms law instructor at Cooley law school for his take.
warlockmatized
Regular Member
imported post
i know i have said this before in another thread BUT
i definately think it is time to have a gathering/cookout in Macomb County
i would like to toss my hat in the ring for planning/prep help for such an event. especially after my chat with the LEO here in Macomb County.
i know i have said this before in another thread BUT
i definately think it is time to have a gathering/cookout in Macomb County
i would like to toss my hat in the ring for planning/prep help for such an event. especially after my chat with the LEO here in Macomb County.
Venator
Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter
imported post
warlockmatized wrote:
warlockmatized wrote:
Go for it. Post a date or two and see who can make it. Then go from there. Cookout are always a good idea, but we have had a couple of get togethers at McDonalds (winter time) at lunch-time that way you get a lot of people coming and going and can get the message out to more people. If there is a park near the PD, we could meet there. Also I see you sent in the info packet to your local LEO's, that's a start.
DickTracy1953
Regular Member
imported post
Right now I don't have a CCW but I was wondering about the daily transportation of firearms in my mini-van.
My first question is can I keep the magazines loaded and stored in the glove box.
In the past I use to keep them in their own pistol tote case but my friends told me that I might be asking for trouble if I was stopped and a law enforcement officer happened to see the pistol case because it is in plain sight in the storage basket between the front seats.
I keep the handgun in a tote case near the back door in an open wooden box that contains some of my shooting gear. I store ammo for the rifles and shotgun in there as well as targets, spotting scopes, cleaning kits, knives, and rope. I almost always have a rifle, or pistol in my van except at night when I bring them into my house. Of course they are not loaded. My second question is: am I in compliance.
I thought that I read somewhere that in a mini-van you had to keep the handgun stored in a locked case or tool box that was locked.
After I obtain my CCW will I be able to keep rifles and shotguns loaded in my van or will I only be able to keep the handguns loaded. I've been looking at getting one of the AK-47 underfolders because they are classified as handguns in Michigan.
Right now I don't have a CCW but I was wondering about the daily transportation of firearms in my mini-van.
My first question is can I keep the magazines loaded and stored in the glove box.
In the past I use to keep them in their own pistol tote case but my friends told me that I might be asking for trouble if I was stopped and a law enforcement officer happened to see the pistol case because it is in plain sight in the storage basket between the front seats.
I keep the handgun in a tote case near the back door in an open wooden box that contains some of my shooting gear. I store ammo for the rifles and shotgun in there as well as targets, spotting scopes, cleaning kits, knives, and rope. I almost always have a rifle, or pistol in my van except at night when I bring them into my house. Of course they are not loaded. My second question is: am I in compliance.
I thought that I read somewhere that in a mini-van you had to keep the handgun stored in a locked case or tool box that was locked.
After I obtain my CCW will I be able to keep rifles and shotguns loaded in my van or will I only be able to keep the handguns loaded. I've been looking at getting one of the AK-47 underfolders because they are classified as handguns in Michigan.
SpringerXDacp
New member
imported post
DickTracy1953 wrote:
DickTracy, review this thread (See Venator) for transport.
Without a CPL, I would not keep loaded mags that accessible to those in the front seat. Actually I would not have loaded mags in the vehicle at all without a CPL. I don't think Michigan has a statue requiring that mags must be seperate from gun-only unloaded. I'm fairly certain the mags may be placed along with your gun in the gun case as long as the gun is not loaded...I'd have to check on this (mags in gun case that is). Required or not, and without a CPL, I would keep the case locked.
After I obtain my CCW will I be able to keep rifles and shotguns loaded in my van or will I only be able to keep the handguns loaded.
Unfortunately, no, not in Michigan anyways. All rifles and shotguns must be unloaded and, either;
1) Incased, bag or hardshell type case, or
2) Broke-down
1) would be the beat method to transport
See Link: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(y2olowjpflr0ewj15ogmavi3))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-231a
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]1. If I do not have a CCW permit, may I transport my pistol in a motor vehicle?MCL 750.231aA person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.[/font]
Per MSP:
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]The law defines ‘lawful purpose' as:[/font]
DickTracy1953 wrote:
DickTracy, review this thread (See Venator) for transport.
Without a CPL, I would not keep loaded mags that accessible to those in the front seat. Actually I would not have loaded mags in the vehicle at all without a CPL. I don't think Michigan has a statue requiring that mags must be seperate from gun-only unloaded. I'm fairly certain the mags may be placed along with your gun in the gun case as long as the gun is not loaded...I'd have to check on this (mags in gun case that is). Required or not, and without a CPL, I would keep the case locked.
After I obtain my CCW will I be able to keep rifles and shotguns loaded in my van or will I only be able to keep the handguns loaded.
Unfortunately, no, not in Michigan anyways. All rifles and shotguns must be unloaded and, either;
1) Incased, bag or hardshell type case, or
2) Broke-down
1) would be the beat method to transport
See Link: http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(y2olowjpflr0ewj15ogmavi3))/mileg.aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-231a
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]1. If I do not have a CCW permit, may I transport my pistol in a motor vehicle?MCL 750.231aA person is now permitted to transport a pistol for a lawful purpose if the owner or occupant of the vehicle is the registered owner of the firearm and the pistol is unloaded and in a closed case in the trunk of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a trunk, the pistol may be in the passenger compartment of the vehicle unloaded and inaccessible to the occupants of the vehicle.[/font]
Per MSP:
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]The law defines ‘lawful purpose' as:[/font]
- [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.[/font]
- [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.[/font]
- [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.[/font]
- [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.[/font]
- [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.[/font]
- [font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.[/font]
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
DickTracy1953 wrote:
DickTracy1953 wrote:
Along with what SpringerXDacp said, be very careful with that underfolder. I know a lot of people are selling and buying them, but the ones I've seen are under 26" making them a SBR, and therefore illegal. Check the Michigan section of ar15.com for threads on them.
SpringerXDacp
New member
imported post
ghostrider wrote:
Per MSP;
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]3. Do rifles or shotguns with collapsible/folding stocks have to be registered in Michigan?[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]MCL 750.222 Yes, provided the rifle or shotgun is 30 inches or less in overall length with the stock collapsed/folded but at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches and 18 inches respectively. Attorney General's opinion #6280: if the firearm is less than 26 inches in overall length or the barrel is less than 16 or 18 inches respectively, the firearm is considered a short-barreled rifle or shotgun and is illegal to possess.MCL 750.224dThere is an exception for short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles which the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector's item not likely to be used as a weapon.[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]The possessor must comply with Section 2 (License to Purchase) and Section 9 (Safety Inspection Certificate/registration) of Act 372.[/font]
The way I read this is-at least on the surface-if his AK barrel is at least 16" AND the overall length is at least 26"-->30" with his stock collapsed, it is a pistol in Michigan. Carrying and transport requirements (laws), without CPL, still apply.
ghostrider wrote:
Per MSP;
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]3. Do rifles or shotguns with collapsible/folding stocks have to be registered in Michigan?[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]MCL 750.222 Yes, provided the rifle or shotgun is 30 inches or less in overall length with the stock collapsed/folded but at least 26 inches and the barrel length is at least 16 inches and 18 inches respectively. Attorney General's opinion #6280: if the firearm is less than 26 inches in overall length or the barrel is less than 16 or 18 inches respectively, the firearm is considered a short-barreled rifle or shotgun and is illegal to possess.MCL 750.224dThere is an exception for short-barreled shotguns and short-barreled rifles which the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms has found to be a curio, relic, antique, museum piece, or collector's item not likely to be used as a weapon.[/font]
[font="Arial, Helvetica"]The possessor must comply with Section 2 (License to Purchase) and Section 9 (Safety Inspection Certificate/registration) of Act 372.[/font]
The way I read this is-at least on the surface-if his AK barrel is at least 16" AND the overall length is at least 26"-->30" with his stock collapsed, it is a pistol in Michigan. Carrying and transport requirements (laws), without CPL, still apply.
ghostrider
Regular Member
imported post
Correct but the ones I've seen have been less than 26" folded, therefore making them an illegal SBR. I haven't paid much attention to them, or the buzz about them, but did see a thread where they said that MSP were telling local to confiscate them as SBR's.
One should measure them before parting with cash. Keep in mind that the muzzle brake or flash hider is detachable and therefore not included in the measurement since it can be removed. It must be permanent.
Correct but the ones I've seen have been less than 26" folded, therefore making them an illegal SBR. I haven't paid much attention to them, or the buzz about them, but did see a thread where they said that MSP were telling local to confiscate them as SBR's.
One should measure them before parting with cash. Keep in mind that the muzzle brake or flash hider is detachable and therefore not included in the measurement since it can be removed. It must be permanent.
DickTracy1953
Regular Member
imported post
It seems that the law remains silent as to the storage of any loaded magazines or ammunition stored in speed loaders during transportation of firearms in your car, van or truck.
The reason I keep the magazines loaded is so that when I go to holster my handgun I do not waste time loading the magazine which would defeat the purpose of open carrying because you are most at risk when you are out of your vehicle fumbling around.
I am going to sign up for the CCW class to make my life a whole lot easier. You guys seem to be right on the mark about the instructors of the CCW classes telling people not to allow anyone to see that they are carrying. They inform the class that open carry is brandishing unless you are at a shooting range, at your place of business, at your home, or hunting.
It seems that the law remains silent as to the storage of any loaded magazines or ammunition stored in speed loaders during transportation of firearms in your car, van or truck.
The reason I keep the magazines loaded is so that when I go to holster my handgun I do not waste time loading the magazine which would defeat the purpose of open carrying because you are most at risk when you are out of your vehicle fumbling around.
I am going to sign up for the CCW class to make my life a whole lot easier. You guys seem to be right on the mark about the instructors of the CCW classes telling people not to allow anyone to see that they are carrying. They inform the class that open carry is brandishing unless you are at a shooting range, at your place of business, at your home, or hunting.
SpringerXDacp
New member
imported post
DickTracy1953 wrote:
Mule Muffins.....:banghead:
DickTracy1953 wrote:
Mule Muffins.....:banghead:
WARCHILD
Regular Member
imported post
SpringerXDacp wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
imported post
Nothing in Michigan law that prohibitstransporting loaded Mags or speedloader in a vehicle. Or anything that addresses how they must be transported. Law only states that weapon in and of itself must be unloaded...
NOTE: Courts have said that loose ammo/loaded mags in plain view are enough PC for the officer to search your vehicle for weapons.... So to save yourself the headache, lock them up-out of view....
Sounds like the CPL instructors are uneducated and I would ask for my money back. If they are not aware of the OC laws ,what else are they telling you that is not correct ??????
------------
Take alook at the Mossberg J.I.C. shotgun. I have one in marinecote and is a pistol under MI law... Nice to have on the boat, car or home...
Nothing in Michigan law that prohibitstransporting loaded Mags or speedloader in a vehicle. Or anything that addresses how they must be transported. Law only states that weapon in and of itself must be unloaded...
NOTE: Courts have said that loose ammo/loaded mags in plain view are enough PC for the officer to search your vehicle for weapons.... So to save yourself the headache, lock them up-out of view....
Sounds like the CPL instructors are uneducated and I would ask for my money back. If they are not aware of the OC laws ,what else are they telling you that is not correct ??????
------------
Take alook at the Mossberg J.I.C. shotgun. I have one in marinecote and is a pistol under MI law... Nice to have on the boat, car or home...
warlockmatized
Regular Member
imported post
vtwjmsw wrote:
http://www.mlive.com/flintjournal/index.ssf/2008/06/openly_carrying_their_guns_gro.html
vtwjmsw wrote:
i would like to direct you to the article published in the Flint Journal from our 6-14-08 open carry picnic in a PUBLIC park.
http://www.mlive.com/flintjournal/index.ssf/2008/06/openly_carrying_their_guns_gro.html