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Thread: Police Home Assault Informer Revealed, and Chesapeake PD apparently made deal with bad informer

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    There was a lot of emotion expended on the Ryan Frederick case, and the shooting of Detective Shivers in the Virginia forum. I, for one, am very concerned about what this case means for my police department (I live in Chesapeake) and for our right to defend ourselves.

    We obviously do not have all of the facts yet, but every fact so far revealed by the Chesapeake P.D., the media, the attorneys or the court papers only appear to bolster what we heard from Ryan Frederick's jail house interview,that he was defending himself from a home invasion.

    The handling of this case by the Chesapeake P.D. seems to be a text book case in how not to do it. The latest: The informant had a grudge against Ryan Frederick. The informant was arrested two days before the home assault It appears the police madea deal with the informant. The police reneged on their deal with the informant. The informant has fled and now has 5 fugitive warrants issued in Chesapeake. The Chesapeake Police, as usual, refuse to comment.

    Keep your eye on this case. We don't have all of the facts yet, but itis starting to stink.

    I live in Chesapeake and I can tell you that this case has a very bad feel to it. That "feel"is the Chesapeake PD persecuting a gun-owner who was trying to defend himself, in order to divert criticism from theirmistakes Please understand that when I saymistakes I speak not of the fallen officer, but of the police administration that put Detective Shivers on that doorstep, the behavior of the department in investigating and the horrible (and always changing) public information mess.

    Here is the first information about the informant from the press:

    Link: NewsChannel Three has learned that informant is now a wanted man...on the run from the law.

    In January, that informant told police that Frederick was growing pot at his house. That he saw a scale, packaging items, grow lights and marijuana plants. On January 17th, police broke through the front door of Frederick's Portlock home executing a search warrant for those drugs based on that tip. Frederick opened fire, saying he did not know it was police bursting through his door. He said he thought it was an intruder breaking in because he recently had had someone stealing from his home. In the end, Shivers would die and police would find only a small misdemeanor stash of pot inside. Frederick now sits behind bars charged with first degree murder.

    So who is the informant who set off this tragic chain of events? Who is the informant who led police to raid the home of a soda-delivery man with nothing more than a speeding ticket on his record? According to the affidavit for the search warrant that informant is the only source for the raid. There were no corroborating confidential informants. There was no surveillance. There were no undercover dope buys. So who was the sole source for police?

    NewsChannel Three has learned he's a 20-year-old with a troubled employment record, who's character has been questioned by multiple sources, and who has a criminal record.

    NewsChannel Three has his full name and even has a mug shot, but we are only identifying him by his first name, Steven, because police tell us they are certainly not going to confirm a police informant's name to a reporter.

    But in letters to his family, Ryan Frederick identifies Steven as the "confidential informant." Frederick knew him. Stevenwas dating the sister of Frederick's fiance. Family members tell NewsChannel Three that Frederick accused Steven of stealing something from Frederick's home. Steven got mad and threatened to come back to Frederick's house.

    According to multiple sources, Steven worked at Bullies, a Chesapeake restaurant and bar. The owner tells NewsChannel Three that Steven was fired...not once, but twice. The second time came after he had threatened to burn the owner. In fact, according to court records, the owner charged Steven with trespassing and had to take him to court to get him to stop coming in the bar.

    According to court records, Steven also has a criminal history. He was arrested on January 15th for grand larceny for stealing a woman's credit cards in Chesapeake. He was also charged with credit card fraud for trying to use those credit cards. Two days after that arrest, police would make the raid on Frederick's home. Did Steven tell police about a possible drug stash in Frederick's home in exchange for dropping his charges? We don't know. But, a few months later, that grand larceny charge WAS dismissed. Those credit card charges WERE nolle prosequi or set aside. That was April.

    Now Newschannel Three has learned that those charges have recently resurfaced, in the form of direct indictments. Steven was supposed to be in court last week to face those charges. He was a no show. Now a judge has issued a capias for Steven's arrest. He's listed as a fugitive five times over in Chesapeake court records.

    We went to the address listed in those court documents. It's his parents' condo. Steven's father told us he had no idea where Steven is. He said he didn't think Steven would want to talk to a reporter about his knowledge of Ryan Frederick and closed the door on us.

    Ryan Frederick's preliminary hearing on first degree murder is less than two weeks away.








    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    So I can imagine that the informant really played it up and made it all sound real good to the police.

    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.

    The police can be told by a victim that they were assaulted and a warrant can be obtained with no evidence. This is how our system works. You submit a request and present the evidence you have. In the case of a victim.... his word alone.

    So this is what the police did.... the obtained their paperwork on what they believed to be true from a credible informant.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in court.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    LEO 229 wrote:
    So I can imagine that the informant really played it up and made it all sound real good to the police.

    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.

    The police can be told by a victim that they were assaulted and a warrant can be obtained with no evidence. This is how our system works. You submit a request and present the evidence you have. In the case of a victim.... his word alone.

    So this is what the police did.... the obtained their paperwork on what they believed to be true from a credible informant.

    It will be interesting to see what happens in court.
    The informant appears to be a scum bag. I really wish I believed in the Karma thing. That scum bag deserves a lot of bad karma.

    I really do understand how the system works. It did appear to be very shoddy police work. No corroboration of an informant that was under duress, no pre- assault intelligence gathering.Just, get the warrant and assault the house at night.

    Did the police have probable cause? I think that will be heavily contestedin court, but I think that the police can show probable cause.
    :shock:
    Could the police have done a better (competent) job? Of course.

    After the shooting has the Chesapeake PD been incompetent or purposely slanting the event to cover their mistakes? I hope they were merely incompetent. If you think I am exaggerating come to Chesapeake. Many here have the incompetent vs. railroaded discussion.A really sad thing is that the community policing capability of the Chesapeake PD has been severely tarnished by their actions. That makes the streets of my city less safe for both the citizen and the police.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    State Researcher lockman's Avatar
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    It sounds like thier are two victims of a crime, the home owner and a police officer. How about releasing the homeowner and pursue felony charges including murder (if VA has a felony murder rule) against the informant.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    So I can imagine that the informant really played it up and made it all sound real good to the police.

    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    Cite? Where did you get that from? Certainly not from the info in the OP...
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    And the Kathryn Johnston murder trial is winding down http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Johnston

    On April 26, 2007, Smith and Junnier pleaded guilty to manslaughter, violation of oath, criminal solicitation, and making false statements. Smith additionally pleaded guilty to perjury.[14] Furthermore, the federal probe into the police department revealed that Atlanta police routinely lied to obtain search warrants, including often falsifying affidavits. [15]
    [/sup]

    http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metr...sler_0517.html

    The jury in the trial of Atlanta Police Det. Arthur Bruce Tesler went home Friday evening without reaching a verdict. They are scheduled to resume deliberations Monday morning.
    Hours before they went home, though, the jury asked a question pertaining to the narrowly drawn up indictment of Tesler by the Fulton County District Attorney. The query seemed to bode poorly for prosecutors.
    Tesler is accused of lying to get a search warrant that resulted in a botched narcotics raid and the police killing of an innocent 92-year-old woman.
    Tesler testified he did not know that his partner, Jason R. Smith, had perjured himself to a judge to get the no-knock warrant for the northwest Atlanta home despite knowing his partners regularly broke the law to get warrants and make arrests.
    Tesler admitted his role in the cover-up of the illegal warrant after Kathryn Johnston was killed on Nov. 21, 2006 but contended he feared for his safety and his career if didn't assist his partners, Smith and Gregg Junnier. He helped destroy evidence and fed an elaborate cover story to the FBI of a phony drug by at Johnston's house at 933 Neal St. to justify the raid.
    The Superior Court jury wanted to know if it could convict Tesler of violation of oath of office — which carries a 5-year prison sentence —because of his illegal acts after the raid. Superior Court Michael Johnson instructed the jury that it could only consider whether Tesler was guilty of lying to get the warrant for that count of the three-count indictment.
    The District Attorney's Office could have indicted Tesler on multiple counts of violation of oath of office but it chose not to, said William McKenney, Tesler's lawyer.
    Tesler is also indicted on charges of lying in an official investigation and false imprisonment because of his role in surrounding Johnston's house, a highly technical charge that prosecutor Kellie Hill explained to the jury on Thursday before it began deliberating. Junnier and Smith, who were also indicted on charges including murder, have pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter.
    Junnier testified Tesler should have known the warrant was bogus because Smith told him he had included his name in the narrative of observing an undercover drug buy from a young man at Johnston's house.
    Johnston was killed after Tesler, Junnier and Smith had arrested a low-level dealer earlier in the day who they said contended he had seen a kilo of cocaine in the Johnston house when visiting a drug dealer named "Sam." No cocaine was found and Johnston's neighbors said the mysterious "Sam" didn't operate from the house.
    FBI Agent Joe Robuck produced a tape recording of Tesler telling an elaborate lie about how he and his partners had used their regular informant, Alex White, to make a buy at the house to verify the low-level drug dealer's information.
    The tape-recording was made at Tesler's request a couple of weeks after the raid.
    But White had told the FBI he was being pressured by Tesler's partners to lie. A month later, during Tesler's second interview with the FBI, he confessed.
    http://news.google.com/news?as_q=kathryn+johnson







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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Doug,

    The Atlanta case is much more troubling.Atlanta police were not incompetent, they were very intentional law breakers. The defence postulated by one of the officers was revealing, scared about his safety and career.

    I prey that it never gets that bad in Chesapeake.

    The similarities are disturbing. In both cases there was the use of force by the citizen in response to a violent attack upon the citizen's home. Both cases ended in tragedy. Both cases involved questionable police practices. In both cases the police force investigated themselves. In both cases the neighbors immediately came to the defence of the citizen.

    In the Atlanta case, the FBI rooted out the criminals on the force. I don't think the officers in Chesapeake are criminals. In Chesapeake they had a crummy administration. Hopefully the new police chief can fix the problem.


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    i think a very good credit rating, indeed, should be required before completely uncorroborated testimony is used as the basis of a no-knock warrant execution with ZERO surveillance.

    Given a trivial amount of police work, he could have been grabbed on his way to work in the morning, giving him no chance to destroy any evidence in his house, and at almost no risk to either the police or Mr. Frederick. It would have been inconvenient and embarrassing to Mr. Frederick, made him late for work, etc., but he wouldn't be sitting in prison and Det. Shivers wouldn't be dead.

    No-knock executions seem to be the default response in drug cases these days. They should be a last resort.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    swillden wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    i think a very good credit rating, indeed, should be required before completely uncorroborated testimony is used as the basis of a no-knock warrant execution with ZERO surveillance.

    Given a trivial amount of police work, he could have been grabbed on his way to work in the morning, giving him no chance to destroy any evidence in his house, and at almost no risk to either the police or Mr. Frederick. It would have been inconvenient and embarrassing to Mr. Frederick, made him late for work, etc., but he wouldn't be sitting in prison and Det. Shivers wouldn't be dead.

    No-knock executions seem to be the default response in drug cases these days. They should be a last resort.
    I agree!
    I don't know a single officer that will use the word of one informant to obtain a search warrant. There always has to be more.

    Still a lot to find out before taking sides but the PD isn't looking too good right now!

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    peter nap wrote:
    SNIP I don't know a single officer that will use the word of one informant to obtain a search warrant. There always has to be more.
    I hate to be a PITA, but please cite and quote a case for us.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    Citizen wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    SNIP I don't know a single officer that will use the word of one informant to obtain a search warrant. There always has to be more.
    I hate to be a PITA, but please cite and quote a case for us.
    I wasn't quoting a case Citizen, just normal procedure....but since you asked,

    Stephanie, a narcotics officer in Richmond, was interested in a Drug dealer in Richmond, named "Big Titty Pam".

    A hooker who worked out of the City Motel named M&M (can you believe that) was arrested for soliciting and later talked to Stephanie about Pam.
    The information was good and could have been used for a search warrant, however, Stephanie set up several blocks from Pams residence and watched the traffic. She later set up a supervised buy using another informant.

    After the buy, she used M&M's information, plus her surveillance notes and video and the supervised buy, to obtain a warrant.

    Pam refused to tell about her suppliers and was prosecuted. The case was slam dunk and there was no chance of the warrant being tainted because of one informant. (remember, informants are rarely icons of society)

    The Commonwealth dropped the soliciting charges against M&M.

    That's normal procedure and I could give you a hundred more....but they are all pretty much the same.

    If you need a case of one that could have backfired, A gentleman named Epps escaped from state custody. The FBI opened a UFAP because he was rumored to be out of state. Later, an informant told Corrections he was living with his sister in Ashland Va. The state and the FBI needed more and used the informants information to check the sisters phone records. Based on the records, it was decided he was in Homasasa Fla.

    He was there staying with an old girlfriend. If the informants information was used for a warrant, the sisters house would have been entered wrongly.
    I repeat, standard procedure.

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    swillden wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    i think a very good credit rating, indeed, should be required before completely uncorroborated testimony is used as the basis of a no-knock warrant execution with ZERO surveillance.

    Given a trivial amount of police work, he could have been grabbed on his way to work in the morning, giving him no chance to destroy any evidence in his house, and at almost no risk to either the police or Mr. Frederick. It would have been inconvenient and embarrassing to Mr. Frederick, made him late for work, etc., but he wouldn't be sitting in prison and Det. Shivers wouldn't be dead.

    No-knock executions seem to be the default response in drug cases these days. They should be a last resort.
    Same thing happened in Waco and Ruby Ridge.
    Numerous opportunities to snag Koersh or Weaver peacefully, but there just wasn't enough macho in it.


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    Ryan Frederick's civil rights were violated. He should not be in jail. I can only imagine how being in jail has broken him down mentaly, and what this has done to his credit, since he can not work topay his bills while he is in jail.

    If I offend some of you I want to say I am sorry first off, but I mean what I say. The Chesapeake Police Department are liable for that officer's death and I can not help but to think that the slain officer is somewhat responsible as well.

    The way I understand it is that this supposed drug bust was his baby. This was his thing. Executing a no knock search warrant without any other kind of surveillence is absurd.


    MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT! FREDERICK'S 4TH AMENDMENT RIGHT WAS VIOLATED! I HAVE NO SYMPATHY FOR THE CHESAPEAKE POLICE DEPARTMENT OR THE CHAOS THAT FOLLOWED! THIS IS THE KIND OF **** THAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU TRAMPLE ON THE CONSTITUTION!


    [line]





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    OUR FOREFATHERS DRAFTED THE 4TH AMENDMENT FOR JUST SUCH A REASON AS THE FREDERICK CASE! TO HELL WITH THE CHESAPEAKE PD AND ANY JUDGE THAT HAS LET THEM GET AWAY WITH THE ABUSE THEY HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH FOR GOD KNOWS HOW LONG!



    Amendment IV

    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

    ONE ******* OF QUESTIONABLE CHARACTER DOES NOT CONSTITUTE A NO-KNOCK SEARCH WARRANT ON A CITIZEN'S HOME!
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    roscoe13 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    So I can imagine that the informant really played it up and made it all sound real good to the police.

    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    Cite? Where did you get that from? Certainly not from the info in the OP...
    It was in other news articles.

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    swillden wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    i think a very good credit rating, indeed, should be required before completely uncorroborated testimony is used as the basis of a no-knock warrant execution with ZERO surveillance.

    Given a trivial amount of police work, he could have been grabbed on his way to work in the morning, giving him no chance to destroy any evidence in his house, and at almost no risk to either the police or Mr. Frederick. It would have been inconvenient and embarrassing to Mr. Frederick, made him late for work, etc., but he wouldn't be sitting in prison and Det. Shivers wouldn't be dead.

    No-knock executions seem to be the default response in drug cases these days. They should be a last resort.
    I would not have just gone in like they did. I would start checking him out. Having good information would mean that they should waste time looking into the guy and seeing what evidence they could find.

    I am guessing they did not do that because he was supposed to have several plants and they wanted to be sure to catch him red handed. Checking him out wold obviously take time and this would be time given to him to sell or remove his plants.

    They did obtain a search warrant legally.... and this would have been by using the word of the informant alone.

    As I said.... the news reported he had given other good information in the past so the police had a good reason to believe what the guy was saying. He had achieved a high trust level and took advantage of it.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    peter nap wrote:
    swillden wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    i think a very good credit rating, indeed, should be required before completely uncorroborated testimony is used as the basis of a no-knock warrant execution with ZERO surveillance.

    Given a trivial amount of police work, he could have been grabbed on his way to work in the morning, giving him no chance to destroy any evidence in his house, and at almost no risk to either the police or Mr. Frederick. It would have been inconvenient and embarrassing to Mr. Frederick, made him late for work, etc., but he wouldn't be sitting in prison and Det. Shivers wouldn't be dead.

    No-knock executions seem to be the default response in drug cases these days. They should be a last resort.
    I agree!
    I don't know a single officer that will use the word of one informant to obtain a search warrant. There always has to be more.

    Still a lot to find out before taking sides but the PD isn't looking too good right now!
    In this case the search warrant was issued based upon the uncorroborated information of one informant.


    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    The TV tries to make it like since the informant is a BG and the police shouldn't use BG as informants. Yep he was a scumbag but the average law abiding citizen isn't going to be able to provide much information about BG's. Unfortunatley you have to use scum to obtain information. In this case it turned out to be bad information with very unfortunate results. I am not ready to rake anyone over the coals except the informant but there were enough screw ups on both sides to spill over into some mor investigations.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    I would not have just gone in like they did. I would start checking him out. Having good information would mean that they should waste time looking into the guy and seeing what evidence they could find.

    I am guessing they did not do that because he was supposed to have several plants and they wanted to be sure to catch him red handed. Checking him out wold obviously take time and this would be time given to him to sell or remove his plants.
    Ensuring evidence was not destroyed is not a good enough reason for not checking further into the allegation.

    Time is all you've got. Ask the dead officer. He ran out of time.

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    Nelson_Muntz wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I would not have just gone in like they did. I would start checking him out. Having good information would mean that they should waste time looking into the guy and seeing what evidence they could find.

    I am guessing they did not do that because he was supposed to have several plants and they wanted to be sure to catch him red handed. Checking him out wold obviously take time and this would be time given to him to sell or remove his plants.
    Ensuring evidence was not destroyed is not a good enough reason for not checking further into the allegation.

    Time is all you've got. Ask the dead officer. He ran out of time.

    ChesapeakePD did obtain the warrant legally. There is really no way to argue that in Chesapeake - as opposed the Atlanta PD lying to obtain it.

    It sounds like Chesapeake Officers saw a few service stars or commendations in the future and wanted to act fast.

    Remembering the earlier posts, the guy had a big "stash" of Japanese Maples and some solid investigation would have discovered the information...

    Without risking the officer's, or the innocence home owner's life.


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    Nelson_Muntz wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I would not have just gone in like they did. I would start checking him out. Having good information would mean that they should waste time looking into the guy and seeing what evidence they could find.

    I am guessing they did not do that because he was supposed to have several plants and they wanted to be sure to catch him red handed. Checking him out wold obviously take time and this would be time given to him to sell or remove his plants.
    Ensuring evidence was not destroyed is not a good enough reason for not checking further into the allegation.

    Time is all you've got. Ask the dead officer. He ran out of time.
    Exactly.

    We were talking about alleged pot plants here, right? Not a rape or child abduction or a suspected WMD. Is pot really such a scourge upon our society that law enforcement needs to use no knock warrants in the middle of the night, on uncorroborated and unchecked information?



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    LEO 229 wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    So I can imagine that the informant really played it up and made it all sound real good to the police.

    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    Cite? Where did you get that from? Certainly not from the info in the OP...
    It was in other news articles.
    Cite?
    "The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." - George Washington

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    possumboy wrote:
    Nelson_Muntz wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    I would not have just gone in like they did. I would start checking him out. Having good information would mean that they should waste time looking into the guy and seeing what evidence they could find.

    I am guessing they did not do that because he was supposed to have several plants and they wanted to be sure to catch him red handed. Checking him out wold obviously take time and this would be time given to him to sell or remove his plants.
    Ensuring evidence was not destroyed is not a good enough reason for not checking further into the allegation.

    Time is all you've got. Ask the dead officer. He ran out of time.

    ChesapeakePD did obtain the warrant legally. There is really no way to argue that in Chesapeake - as opposed the Atlanta PD lying to obtain it.

    It sounds like Chesapeake Officers saw a few service stars or commendations in the future and wanted to act fast.

    Remembering the earlier posts, the guy had a big "stash" of Japanese Maples and some solid investigation would have discovered the information...

    Without risking the officer's, or the innocence home owner's life.
    I think short cuts were made, but I do not necessarily blame the police officers. The old police administration was a mess. There were not enough police officers to go around. Personnel shortages are well documented. This shortage also led to the recent 911 taped messageincident. Detectives were under pressure to produce. On the surface this looked like an easy win for the detectives. Very tragic results.

    To fix the systemic police administration problems many things are happening.

    1. There is a change in police chief. Hopefully there will be a real shake up.

    2. There is an independent audit of the Chesapeake police practices.

    3. There is a large class at the police academy (37 is a large number for Chesapeake) to begin to fix the manpower shortage.

    ************

    This still leaves us with the other problem, which is the way in which the Chesapeake PDand the Commonwealth havetreated the shooter. We do not have all the facts, but what we know seems to pint to abusive behavior.

    1. The Chesapeake PD charged the shooter with 1st Degree murder. 2nd degree murder for this incident would be a huge stretch, but I have not read anything that would come close t 1st degree.

    2. At the bond hearing the Special Prosecutor claimed that the shooter shot the detective in the front yard and stated that the Commonwealth was considering upgrading the charge to capital murder.

    Why is this such an issue? Because this apparent misapplication of the law permits the Commonwealth to successfully argue that bail should be denied. So the shooter sits in jail awaiting trial. It has been four months and there has not yet even been a preliminary hearing. This abusive charging would wear down the defendant, enabling the prosecution to get a plea bargain. Keeping the skeletons buried.

    Why is this important to this forum?

    Because there but for the grace of god go many gun owners. I am not saying that the shooter did not do anything wrong. Involuntary manslaughter might be seen as a reasonable charge depending on whether you feel a person is justified in shooting at a person that they cannot see. It is the difference between prosecution and persecution.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

  24. #24
    Founder's Club Member
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    Post imported post

    peter nap wrote:
    Citizen wrote:
    peter nap wrote:
    SNIP I don't know a single officer that will use the word of one informant to obtain a search warrant. There always has to be more.
    I hate to be a PITA, but please cite and quote a case for us.
    I wasn't quoting a case Citizen, just normal procedure....but since you asked,
    I get it. Thanks for clarifying.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
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    Post imported post

    roscoe13 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    roscoe13 wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    So I can imagine that the informant really played it up and made it all sound real good to the police.

    Since he had provided good information in the past. his credit rating was good and they believed him.
    Cite? Where did you get that from? Certainly not from the info in the OP...
    It was in other news articles.
    Cite?
    Sorry, I am not going to go find it as it is lost in all the news reports that are out there and could have been removed from circulation for all I know.

    Either you can take my word for it that it was written or not. Makes no difference to me.

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