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Thread: weapon-gun free zones

  1. #1
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    help me understand - 28.425o = no CC school, arena, bar...Exceptions- employees, posse, police. Then 750.234d (1) prohibited a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h, Sec (2) (c) a person licensed...to CC. Then 750.237a = Violations... Sec (4) Except as provided in subsection (5)(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. Any comments, ideas or answers?

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    springerdave wrote:
    help me understand - 28.425o = no CC school, arena, bar...Exceptions- employees, posse, police. Then 750.234d (1) prohibited a,b,c,d,e,f,g,h, Sec (2) (c) a person licensed...to CC. Then 750.237a = Violations... Sec (4) Except as provided in subsection (5)(c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. Any comments, ideas or answers?
    What is your question? I'm not sure what you are asking based on your post.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    Well, Venator, my question is a little off the open carry trail but here goes- 28.425o says there is no cc allowed in schools, arenas, bars, court amoung other places. The exceptions are those employed or contracted by an entity- the school, the bar, the arena and so forth. 750.237a lists the violations until it gets to Sec. (4) of 750.237a where it says that- Except as provided in subsection (5). Sec. (5) says Subsection (4) does not apply to the following: (a) An individual employed or contracted by the school if the posession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school. (b) A peace officer. (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. and there are more exceptions after those and then definitions of school, school property and weapon free school zone. Question is, does the posession of a concealed pistol license allow carry of either an open or concealed pistol on those premises listed in 28.425o?

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    springerdave wrote:
    Well, Venator, my question is a little off the open carry trail but here goes- 28.425o says there is no cc allowed in schools, arenas, bars, court amoung other places. The exceptions are those employed or contracted by an entity- the school, the bar, the arena and so forth. 750.237a lists the violations until it gets to Sec. (4) of 750.237a where it says that- Except as provided in subsection (5). Sec. (5) says Subsection (4) does not apply to the following: (a) An individual employed or contracted by the school if the posession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school. (b) A peace officer. (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. and there are more exceptions after those and then definitions of school, school property and weapon free school zone. Question is, does the posession of a concealed pistol license allow carry of either an open or concealed pistol on those premises listed in 28.425o?

    It think this may answer your question. We have posted this info on previous threads and it has been discussed at length. We do have three opinions on this. If you do not have a CPL you can't have any weapons in the listed zones, unless you have permission from the property owner. this question was asked of the MSP and the response follows. (Remember that the places listed are all private property so they can ban guns and you would be trespassing if you didn't leave.)

    The Question:

    I have a question regarding the open carry of firearms by a CPL holder. It seems as if there are two relevant]Michigan laws: MCL 28.425o and MCL 750.234d.

    MCL 28.425o prohibits concealed carry in certain areas (i.e., Day Care, school, sports arena, bar, church, An entertainment facility with a seating capacity of 2,500, hospital and dorm.) Note, this just prohibits concealed carry, not open carry.

    MCL 750.234d prohibits possession of firearms in certain areas (i.e., bank, church, court, theatre, sports arena, day care, hospital or bar). The statutes also states, “This section does not apply to any of the following: (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” This statute then, does not apply to me, as I am a CPL holder.

    Neither of the previous statutes prohibits open carry by a CPL holder in “Pistol Free Zone.” Based upon this (and the assumptions that there are no Michigan laws I am overlooking), it seems as if I open carry in the Pistol Free Zones I would not be breaking any laws. Is this correct?

    I greatly appreciate you taking the time to clarify this with me.
    Sincerely, -XXXX
    [/b]
    [/b]ANSWER:

    “Your analysis is correct.]Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones.”

    Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy,
    Michigan[/b] [/b]State[/b] Police Executive Resource Section, (517) 336-6441[/b]
    [/b]
    In addition we have the same interpretation from An AG opinion,and Senator Prusi.
    [/b]
    Opinion No. 7097 January 11, 2002… A person licensed by this state… to carry a concealed weapon….By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol, including a private investigator, is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.

    “…My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are a licensed CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter…” Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"[/b]




    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I am satisfied with the "pistol free zone" answers on 750.234d but still have concerns about 750.237a's "weapon free school zones" is there a difference. Thanks for your help in making this more clear.

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    springerdave wrote:
    I am satisfied with the "pistol free zone" answers on 750.234d but still have concerns about 750.237a's "weapon free school zones" is there a difference. Thanks for your help in making this more clear.
    From my MCL search 750.237 deals with firearm possession while under the influence so is it a typo?The free zones in .234d does not include schools. The school zone for me is tricky. There may be federal laws involved. And if Michigan has a law that does not allow weapons in school zones regardless of a CPL you may get nicked there. Most of the laws are concerned with concealed carry in those places. So I would advise a person to investigate more on this area.On the surface it would appear that open carry in and on schools would be allowed with a CPL. We have one member that does volunteer security (plain clothes) and open carries at school events without a problem so far. So get back to me on this.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    No typo, 750.237 does in fact deal with under the influence, but I refered to 750.237a which to me looks like it deals with weapon free school zones. I think you're correct about the fed law, might have somthing to do with "my child left behind law" Thanks again.

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    springerdave wrote:
    No typo, 750.237 does in fact deal with under the influence, but I refered to 750.237a which to me looks like it deals with weapon free school zones. I think you're correct about the fed law, might have somthing to do with "my child left behind law" Thanks again.


    In pertinent part; 237a:

    (4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

    (b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

    (c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

    (5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Definition of school zone (K-12) other than that provided in 237a, in pertinent part:

    257.627a "Regularly scheduled school session," "school," and "school zone" defined; prima facie speed limit in school zone; signs; applicability of section to walkway; location of school; school in session year-round.

    Sec. 627a.

    (1) As used in this section and section 629:

    (a) "Regularly scheduled school session" means that part of a day of student instruction that is followed by a break for lunch or by a final dismissal of the student body for that day.

    (b) "School" means an educational institution operated by a local school district or by a private, denominational, or parochial organization. School does not include an educational institution that the department of education determines has its entire student population in residence at the institution.

    (c) "School zone" means school property on which a school building is located and the area adjacent to the school property that is designated by the signs required under subsection (2). Except as otherwise provided in subsection (5), the school zone extends not more than 1,000 feet from the property line of the school in each direction.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    750.237a allows those with a CPL to possess a weapon (handgun) while in the "School Zone". Also, as you may already know, CC on school grounds (parking lot) is allowed, but you must remain in your vehicle...Of course with the pick up/drop off requirements.

    Simply put, much like 750.237a, 750.234d prohibits possession in those listed areas (a)--->(h), unless you have a CPL. (does not mention schools)

    28.425o lists those prohibitedareas to possess a handgunas 234d, to include schools (K-12). (425o only pertains to conceal carry)

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Without a CPL, while within the "School Zone":

    "Lawful Transport"

    • While en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.
    • While transporting a pistol to or from home or place of business and a place of repair.
    • While moving goods from one place of residence or business to another place of residence or business.
    • While transporting a licensed pistol to or from a law enforcement agency for the purpose of having a safety inspection performed (registering the pistol) or to have a law enforcement official take possession of the pistol.
    • While en route to or from home or place of business to a gun show or place of purchase or sale.
    • While en route to or from home to a public shooting facility or land where the discharge of firearms is permitted.
    • While en route to or from home to private property where the pistol is to be used as permitted by law, rule, regulation, or local ordinance.
    Federal Law on the Transportation of Firearms. Title 18 U.S.C. Section 926A









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    springerdave wrote:
    No typo, 750.237 does in fact deal with under the influence, but I refered to 750.237a which to me looks like it deals with weapon free school zones. I think you're correct about the fed law, might have somthing to do with "my child left behind law" Thanks again.
    Here is the law you are referring to. See exemptions. A CPL holder can openly carry. This is based on the opinions of the three people that was discussed before. Because a CPLholder can not carry concealed in a school (except to drop off, etc) under the condition of his license, he must carry openly.




    750.237a Individuals engaging in proscribed conduct; violation; penalties; definitions.



    Sec. 237a.

    (1) An individual who engages in conduct proscribed under section 224, 224a, 224b, 224c, 224e, 226, 227, 227a, 227f, 234a, 234b, or 234c, or who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(2) for a second or subsequent time, in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a felony punishable by 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Imprisonment for not more than the maximum term of imprisonment authorized for the section violated.

    (b) Community service for not more than 150 hours.

    (c) A fine of not more than 3 times the maximum fine authorized for the section violated.

    (2) An individual who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(1), 224d, 226a, 227c, 227d, 231c, 232a(1) or (4), 233, 234, 234e, 234f, 235, 236, or 237, or who engages in conduct proscribed under section 223(2) for the first time, in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Imprisonment for not more than the maximum term of imprisonment authorized for the section violated or 93 days, whichever is greater.

    (b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

    (c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00 or the maximum fine authorized for the section violated, whichever is greater.

    (3) Subsections (1) and (2) do not apply to conduct proscribed under a section enumerated in those subsections to the extent that the proscribed conduct is otherwise exempted or authorized under this chapter.

    (4) Except as provided in subsection (5), an individual who possesses a weapon in a weapon free school zone is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by 1 or more of the following:

    (a) Imprisonment for not more than 93 days.

    (b) Community service for not more than 100 hours.

    (c) A fine of not more than $2,000.00.

    (5) Subsection (4) does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) An individual employed by or contracted by a school if the possession of that weapon is to provide security services for the school.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) An individual licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) An individual who possesses a weapon provided by a school or a school's instructor on school property for purposes of providing or receiving instruction in the use of that weapon.

    (e) An individual who possesses a firearm on school property if that possession is with the permission of the school's principal or an agent of the school designated by the school's principal or the school board.

    (f) An individual who is 18 years of age or older who is not a student at the school and who possesses a firearm on school property while transporting a student to or from the school if any of the following apply:

    (i) The individual is carrying an antique firearm, completely unloaded, in a wrapper or container in the trunk of a vehicle while en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area or function involving the exhibition, demonstration or sale of antique firearms.

    (ii) The individual is carrying a firearm unloaded in a wrapper or container in the trunk of the person's vehicle, while in possession of a valid Michigan hunting license or proof of valid membership in an organization having shooting range facilities, and while en route to or from a hunting or target shooting area.

    (iii) The person is carrying a firearm unloaded in a wrapper or container in the trunk of the person's vehicle from the place of purchase to his or her home or place of business or to a place of repair or back to his or her home or place of business, or in moving goods from one place of abode or business to another place of abode or business.

    (iv) The person is carrying an unloaded firearm in the passenger compartment of a vehicle that does not have a trunk, if the person is otherwise complying with the requirements of subparagraph (ii) or (iii) and the wrapper or container is not readily accessible to the occupants of the vehicle.

    (6) As used in this section:

    (a) “Antique firearm” means either of the following:

    (i) A firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before 1898, including a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or a replica of such a firearm, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.

    (ii) A firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.

    (b) “School” means a public, private, denominational, or parochial school offering developmental kindergarten, kindergarten, or any grade from 1 through 12.

    (c) “School property” means a building, playing field, or property used for school purposes to impart instruction to children or used for functions and events sponsored by a school, except a building used primarily for adult education or college extension courses.

    (d) “Weapon free school zone” means school property and a vehicle used by a school to transport students to or from school property.


    History: Add. 1994, Act 158, Eff. Aug. 15, 1994
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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