First LEO Contact

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First off, I have an great relationship with most of the officers in pullman, i have on several occasions helped them get their squad cars unstuck from the snow and so forth. I freely offerd him my information for several reasons

A.) I knew him already.
B.) He was infact trying to help me Open Carry by circumventing any further police activity in relation to somene calling my description in.

I thought that one goal of OCDO and members was to try and change the perceptions of other people that citizens and gun owners who exercise their rights are, polite, upstanding citizens who are curtious and not the anti-social, defensive, parinoid nut's that the media portrays.

I see no reason to be combative or un friendly to somone who is just doing their job and trying to stay safe. At no point did i feel like i was being harrassed or unreasonably stopped.

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Bear 45/70 wrote:

In Washington, no class and no shooting test. You apply, pass the background check and you get your permit. Any schooling requirementviolates the Second Amendment.

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(emphasis added)

Of course even the very concept of needing a permit to carry a firearm violates the Second Amendment, but it is nice that Washington tramples the constitution a lot less than most states.

I may be moving to the seattle area in the next year or so (it is at the top of the lsit my wife and I recently made), I am really glad the state is as friendly as it is towards firearms and that they make it so easy to get a permit.

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If you ‘knew’ each other, he wouldn’t have requested your ID. Your knowing him is irrelevant. Look, exercising your rights doesn’t have to be confrontational. You willingly sacrificed your privacy rights to exercise your firearms rights, some of us don’t believe in doing so. I’m not exactly new to this process, in fact my first police encounter was so hostile that I almost gave it up, instead it made me resolve to learn the privacy laws. A “friendly” police officer is just a police officer who is smart enough to know that hostile isn’t the only attitude in his bag of tricks.

Ask yourself this; when a police officer politely asks to search your car, is he asking to benefit you or to look for incriminating evidence? IOW, is he going to say, “Oh look at this, your seatbelt is a little frayed here at the bottom, you should get that replaced.” No! He’s looking for something to arrest you for, and you’re giving him the rope that can hang you.

You don’t have to be rude or confrontational when you ask the officer if you are being detained, nor do you have to cop an attitude when he says yes and you ask him for suspicion of what crime he is detaining you. I’m a strong advocate for ‘polite’ at all times, even if it comes to me no longer responding to his questions. I like the police and appreciate the job they do, more so now that I can listen to the jobs they do on the scanner every day.

Your privacy rights are every bit as precious as your firearms rights. To willingly throw away yours seems silly to some of us. I don’t consider the sacrifice of my privacy to be a ‘compromise’ when dealing with a police officer. If he really wants to discuss the issue he can give me his phone number and we can meet later and discuss it over a beer like two grown (and equal) men.

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Mainsail wrote:

If you ‘knew’ each other, he wouldn’t have requested your ID.

Ask yourself this; when a police officer politely asks to search your car, is he asking to benefit you or to look for incriminating evidence? IOW, is he going to say, “Oh look at this, your seatbelt is a little frayed here at the bottom, you should get that replaced.” No! He’s looking for something to arrest you for, and you’re giving him the rope that can hang you.

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He asked for my name, not my ID.

Why is your view of Police so skewed to the negitive? And I am suprised that you have the audacity to belittle somone who you have never met. I did not give him any more personal information then was nessisary. My rights are not sacrified or infringed in any way by simply having a conversation.


I gave him my drivers license becuase my name is very very hard to spell and I wouldnt expect him to remember me apart from everyone he has ever been introduced to before.


Officer Kurht was not trying to obtain information for any other purpose other than to make sure that i was not stopped again.


It's ok.... the men in blue are not coming to get you.....


now go take your meds...

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I think it's a hard stance either way. We have it so ingrained in our heads that the police and the government for that fact are the good guys, which in most cases they are, and that we need to cooperate to the utmost fullest. If we refuse to answer his questions we automatically look guilty and hostile. If we answer his questions we are 'copping-out' (couldn't resist!) and sacrificing our rights. We will never be able to please both groups on this forum. Some people see no wrong in offering information, others think it is a violation of our rights. Who is right? I think it is whoever is in that situation at the time has their on choices to make and is right. Thank God we live in America where we have the choice to do stuff like this.

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Generally when I know someone, I know their name and they know mine.

I'm just sayin. That said, it sounds to me like it went well.

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Loneviking wrote:

Saves the cop a lot of time running down any calls like that when they come in.

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If saving cops' time running down MWAG calls is the goal, then 911 operators should ask the caller questions about the circumstances and what the MWAG is doing, and if there's no violation of 9.41.270 they should inform the caller that peaceful open carry is lawful.

We're slowly making progress in achieving this.

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See I don't think I would be open-carrying inside the jurisdiction where I was trying to get a public safety job. They will see you as a wanna-be.

Like it or not, I think OCers are seen as having fringe views. When departments are hiring, I don't think they are seeking people on the cutting edge. They are looking for the most vanilla, go-with-the-flow, team-player kind of folks.

In your case, I would choose my battles, and not fight this one.

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DMR-223 wrote:

Mainsail wrote:

If you ‘knew’ each other, he wouldn’t have requested your ID.

Ask yourself this; when a police officer politely asks to search your car, is he asking to benefit you or to look for incriminating evidence? IOW, is he going to say, “Oh look at this, your seatbelt is a little frayed here at the bottom, you should get that replaced.” No! He’s looking for something to arrest you for, and you’re giving him the rope that can hang you.

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He asked for my name, not my ID.

Why is your view of Police so skewed to the negitive? And I am suprised that you have the audacity to belittle somone who you have never met. I did not give him any more personal information then was nessisary. My rights are not sacrified or infringed in any way by simply having a conversation.


I gave him my drivers license becuase my name is very very hard to spell and I wouldnt expect him to remember me apart from everyone he has ever been introduced to before.


Officer Kurht was not trying to obtain information for any other purpose other than to make sure that i was not stopped again.


It's ok.... the men in blue are not coming to get you.....


now go take your meds...

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You might want to re-read mainsails whole post and not be so hostile.

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DMR-223 wrote:

Why is your view of Police so skewed to the negitive? And I am suprised that you have the audacity to belittle somone who you have never met.

It's ok.... the men in blue are not coming to get you.....


now go take your meds...

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Seven posts before you resort to personal attacks? I have no idea where you’re getting the idea I’ve belittled you, I offered my opinion based on my experiences. This is, after all, a forum. If you didn't want discussion why did you post?

I’m a strong advocate for ‘polite’… I like the police and appreciate the job they do…

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You’re reading something negative about the police in that?

We all come in here to share experiences and learn from others, sometimes we don’t agree with each other on several topics. For example; I’ve had some wonderful debates about firearms carry at WAC shows, and still have nothing but respect and admiration for the person who doesn’t agree with my position at all. Neither of us has hurled insults merely because the other doesn’t agree with our position. I’m always happy to see new avatars in our forum, and sometimes disappointed when they introduce themselves like this.

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DMR-223 wrote:

Mainsail wrote:

If you ‘knew’ each other, he wouldn’t have requested your ID.

Ask yourself this; when a police officer politely asks to search your car, is he asking to benefit you or to look for incriminating evidence? IOW, is he going to say, “Oh look at this, your seatbelt is a little frayed here at the bottom, you should get that replaced.” No! He’s looking for something to arrest you for, and you’re giving him the rope that can hang you...

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He asked for my name, not my ID.

Why is your view of Police so skewed to the negitive?...

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Since you seem to think that your encounter was all sweetness and light, and that it was all consensual, try open carrying with no ID.

Let us know what happens when you get stopped. I doubt it will be a repeat performance.

With your STOP, you can be sure the officer checked on your record the first chance he got. Do you really think that merely knowing your name gets the officer anything? If so, please tell us. Your name is NOT what he was looking for.

If you feel like you should have to prove yourself, and your law-abiding nature everywhere you go OCing, I guess that's your choice, but it sure isn't exercising your rights.

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Mainsail wrote:

DMR-223 wrote:

Why is your view of Police so skewed to the negitive? And I am suprised that you have the audacity to belittle somone who you have never met.

It's ok.... the men in blue are not coming to get you.....


now go take your meds...

Click to expand...

Seven posts before you resort to personal attacks? I have no idea where you’re getting the idea I’ve belittled you, I offered my opinion based on my experiences. This is, after all, a forum. If you didn't want discussion why did you post?

I’m a strong advocate for ‘polite’… I like the police and appreciate the job they do…

Click to expand...

You’re reading something negative about the police in that?

We all come in here to share experiences and learn from others, sometimes we don’t agree with each other on several topics. For example; I’ve had some wonderful debates about firearms carry at WAC shows, and still have nothing but respect and admiration for the person who doesn’t agree with my position at all. Neither of us has hurled insults merely because the other doesn’t agree with our position. I’m always happy to see new avatars in our forum, and sometimes disappointed when they introduce themselves like this.

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I was referring to your attitude towards the officer, automatically assuming that he is out to get everyone he comes into contact with. I had no intention of starting an argument over this issue with anyone, and I apologize for my last post, I am not new to open carrying however i am new to the forum, and therefore my intention for sharring my story was simply to share good news.

As for Open Carrying in a city while trying to a get a job, my contact was not with the department I am interviewing with, besides, having your information checked by an officer is hardly grounds for disqualification. As for trying to stay in the middle and be "vanilla" i was already through that phase of the hiring process.

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DMR-223 wrote:

He asked for my name, not my ID.

<snip>

I gave him my drivers license becuase my name is very very hard to spell and I wouldnt expect him to remember me apart from everyone he has ever been introduced to before.


Officer Kurht was not trying to obtain information for any other purpose other than to make sure that i was not stopped again.


It's ok.... the men in blue are not coming to get you.....


<snip>

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(red text is generally mutually exclusive)

How is having your NAME, going to prevent you from being stopped again? I think the point that most folks here are trying to make is that your NAME is useless to him in the event of a subsequent MWAG call.

Anyone calling 911 for MWAG isn't going to be able to identify the subject by name (unless they know you, in which case they should have a better reason to call 911 than simply seeing a gun on your hip).

Dispach is not going to come across the ariwaves saying that "John Smith was reported walking down the bike path in the Eavesdown Docks wearing a gun on his hip" allowing the officer to respond that he had already cleared you because he got your name. Getting your DESCRIPTION would allow such an exchange, but your name is not required for that.

The point being there is no REASON for him to ask your name unless he suspects you of criminal activity. IMPO simply asking for that information is an accusation, and an affront to my honor and sensibilities.

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John Hardin wrote:

Loneviking wrote:

Saves the cop a lot of time running down any calls like that when they come in.

Click to expand...

If saving cops' time running down MWAG calls is the goal, then 911 operators should ask the caller questions about the circumstances and what the MWAG is doing, and if there's no violation of 9.41.270 they should inform the caller that peaceful open carry is lawful.

We're slowly making progress in achieving this.

Click to expand...

In an ideal world yes, but this is Washington State.

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DMR-223 wrote:

I was referring to your attitude towards the officer, automatically assuming that he is out to get everyone he comes into contact with. I had no intention of starting an argument over this issue with anyone, and I apologize for my last post, I am not new to open carrying however i am new to the forum, and therefore my intention for sharring my story was simply to share good news.

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I don’t think the police are out to ‘get everyone they come into contact with’, but I’m realistic enough to understand motivation. A police officer does not get awards and good performance reviews for the number of friendly contacts he or she makes during the period. I don’t believe a police officer is going to contact me when I’m carrying openly because he has my best interest at heart. He has a job to do and friendly chats are not part of that job.

I am not and was not criticizing you or the way you handled the situation, after all, you seem happy with it. I’m only expressing my opinion based on my encounters with TPD.

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I have to agree with Mainsail. As friendly as a stop and ID can be, it can't help anything as you are BY LAW presumed legal, unless refusing to ID causes problems with the police officer in which case he's already stepping outside of the law and his job as an officer of the law.

That said, I'm glad that the officer accepted OC as legal and the event was a non-issue (except on the forums).

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As for Open Carrying in a city while trying to a get a job, my contact was not with the department I am interviewing with, besides, having your information checked by an officer is hardly grounds for disqualification. As for trying to stay in the middle and be "vanilla" i was already through that phase of the hiring process.

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Word gets around. And now that they have your name . . .

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Mainsail wrote:

DMR-223 wrote:

I was referring to your attitude towards the officer, automatically assuming that he is out to get everyone he comes into contact with. I had no intention of starting an argument over this issue with anyone, and I apologize for my last post, I am not new to open carrying however i am new to the forum, and therefore my intention for sharring my story was simply to share good news.

Click to expand...

I don’t think the police are out to ‘get everyone they come into contact with’, but I’m realistic enough to understand motivation. A police officer does not get awards and good performance reviews for the number of friendly contacts he or she makes during the period. I don’t believe a police officer is going to contact me when I’m carrying openly because he has my best interest at heart. He has a job to do and friendly chats are not part of that job.

I am not and was not criticizing you or the way you handled the situation, after all, you seem happy with it. I’m only expressing my opinion based on my encounters with TPD.

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Tacoma PD is not a normal Pd by amyones standard, hell just recently their chief was a murder. Don't paint all cops with that brush.OfficerKurht, got his name and address so that if there was a call he could say it was handled and if a higher up questioned him about it he could say"Here's the guys name and address." and prove he had dealt with it. you guys are getting paranoid.