New to the forum/movie theater question

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I'm new to the forum, so here's my introduction. My family is from Charlotte, NC originally, but we've lived in Fredericksburg, VA for the past 12 years. I'll be going into my third year at Virginia Tech this fall, majoring in Civil Engineering. Yes, I was there on the 16th. I lived in the dorm and did know some of the 32. So, I live in Blacksburg for 9 months of the year, and Fredericksburg for the summer. I'm very involved with Students For Concealed Carrry on Campus.

I'm 20 years old, and have just started OCing my XD9SC in the past month. I'm an Eagle Scout, so I've grown up with rifles/shotguns, and shoot skeet regularly in Blacksburg.

I do have a question for you Fredericksburg area folks, and apologies in advance if this has already been covered on the forum, I've searched and haven't found anything yet....I have read that Regal Cinemas has posted no firearms at many locations throughout the region, so I'm assuming that Fredericksburg 15 is posted as well. Does anybody know/have any experience with Marquee Cinemas over at Massaponax?

This is a great forum, I'm really looking forward to getting involved. Thanks!

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VTNGNR wrote:

I'm new to the forum..

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Regal Cinemas has posted no firearms at many locations throughout the region,

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- Welcome

- Not in Sterling, VA

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Not in Virginia Beach, though I normally conceal carry into movie theathers. I have done so in .....

- Lynnhaven AMC (VB)
- Columbus Regal (VB)
- MacArthur Regal (Norfolk)
- Cinema Cafe (Chesapeake)

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Once I am 21, CC will be an option, but for now I'm stuck with OC.

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C45P312 wrote:

Not in Virginia Beach, though I normally conceal carry into movie theathers. I have done so in .....

- Lynnhaven AMC (VB)
- Columbus Regal (VB)
- MacArthur Regal (Norfolk)
- Cinema Cafe (Chesapeake)

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Cinema Cafe serves alcohol, so it is my understanding that they would have an ABC license. Might not want to conceal there anymore.

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If they post a "no firearms allowed sign" and you have a CHP, can you still carry inside as long as it is concealed? (And assuming they have no liquor license)

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Jim Thorpe wrote:

If they post a "no firearms allowed sign" and you have a CHP, can you still carry inside as long as it is concealed? (And assuming they have no liquor license)

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No firearms means no firearms, concealed or open

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ProShooter wrote:

Jim Thorpe wrote:

If they post a "no firearms allowed sign" and you have a CHP, can you still carry inside as long as it is concealed? (And assuming they have no liquor license)

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No firearms means no firearms, concealed or open

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That's kind of a pain, i.e, to have to go back to your car upon encountering such a sign. Alas....

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Jim Thorpe wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Jim Thorpe wrote:

If they post a "no firearms allowed sign" and you have a CHP, can you still carry inside as long as it is concealed? (And assuming they have no liquor license)

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No firearms means no firearms, concealed or open

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That's kind of a pain, i.e, to have to go back to your car upon encountering such a sign. Alas....

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Its not that much of a pain. You walk back to you car, get in, and leave. If they wont allow you the ability to protect yourself, they dont deserve your money and business. Go somewhere else, and keep them on the DNP list.

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Jim Thorpe wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Jim Thorpe wrote:

If they post a "no firearms allowed sign" and you have a CHP, can you still carry inside as long as it is concealed? (And assuming they have no liquor license)

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No firearms means no firearms, concealed or open

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That's kind of a pain, i.e, to have to go back to your car upon encountering such a sign. Alas....

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When I encounter such a sign I like to go back to my car... and then not return to the store. If they don't want my business I will spend my money sometime else.

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mercutio545 wrote:

C45P312 wrote:

Not in Virginia Beach, though I normally conceal carry into movie theathers. I have done so in .....

- Lynnhaven AMC (VB)
- Columbus Regal (VB)
- MacArthur Regal (Norfolk)
- Cinema Cafe (Chesapeake)

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Cinema Cafe serves alcohol, so it is my understanding that they would have an ABC license. Might not want to conceal there anymore.

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Good call.

I did not CC there. That is my bad.

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vt357 wrote:

Jim Thorpe wrote:

ProShooter wrote:

Jim Thorpe wrote:

If they post a "no firearms allowed sign" and you have a CHP, can you still carry inside as long as it is concealed? (And assuming they have no liquor license)

Click to expand...

No firearms means no firearms, concealed or open

Click to expand...

That's kind of a pain, i.e, to have to go back to your car upon encountering such a sign. Alas....

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When I encounter such a sign I like to go back to my car... and then not return to the store. If they don't want my business I will spend my money sometime else.

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Sometimes there are social considerations. If it's just me and my wife, I'd leave and take my business elsewhere, then write a letter to the offending establishment detailing why they will not have my business.

However if we are going with another couple or family, (assuming I have no prior knowledge of any rules) I would intentionally not read anything posted on or around the door. This may only be a realistic option CCing, but it can work for OCing too. LEO 229 and others will argue back and forth on this issue all day though so I'll try to give you both opinions.

Leo 229 quotes law that defines trespassing as being on property after being forbidden to do so, including being forbidden by a sign. Others argue that the sign only applies to a general no-trespassing sign or a sign forbidding you by name. They argue that you cannot be forbidden by description and that you must be asked to leave first.

Regardless, after reading this argument multiple times, I have not seen a bit of case law indicating anyone being convicted of trespassing before being asked to leave. Furthermore I have never read any OC stories of any managers who have tried to press charges of trespassing before giving an OCer opportunity to voluntarily leave.

When all's said and done, it's up to you.

INAL.

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I don't hail from that part of the state, but let me pass on the big welcome that I got from the other members when I joined recently. This is easily the most united, friendly and supportive forum I've ever encountered in thirty plus years of networked computing. You will make friends here, and best of all, you will understand that you aren't fighting alone. If you haven't yet found the other major Virginia gun rights site, check out the Virginia Citizens Defense League at www.vcdl.org.

Welcome! We're glad you found us!

Sorry for your loss at school. Fix what you can.

Dan aka caltain

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Big welcome to OCDO also! Remember, that only PEOPLE can be forbidden to trespass, not general "actions" such as carrying a gun. Upon discovering you are doing something they dislike or is against a posted "Rule of Conduct", you may then be asked to leave. Failing to immediately leave, you are only THEN trespassing.

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BobCav wrote:

Big welcome to OCDO also! Remember, that only PEOPLE can be forbidden to trespass, not general "actions" such as carrying a gun. Upon discovering you are doing something they dislike or is against a posted "Rule of Conduct", you may then be asked to leave. Failing to immediately leave, you are only THEN trespassing.

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Not exactly.....

Remember that in Virginia there is a code that clearly states"or by sign or signs" and this means you HAVE been notified. There is no requirement to tell you in person a second time what the sign already has the first time.

If they have a sign you can "clearly" readas you approach the door.... you are in trouble as soon as you go inside!! Depending on the size it may be an indication onhow strongly they appose the act.

I have personally seen on the Regal theater doors that guns are not allowed. This is not a "sign" andI wouldnot enforce it since it is mixed in with a ton of other stuff. To me, it is too small and can easily be overlooked.

But if the sign is obvious and you simply cannot miss it.... you will get a ticket at the property owners request.



18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof,

or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen,

or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.




Here is an example of where one is not obvious where the other is.

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Yeah, I tried to give you both sides of the story, but there you go from the horses mouth. If you do a search you can find threads that go on for pages with LEO arguing with everyone else about whether or not violation of a code of conduct constitutes trespassing.

LEO, one question that I have not seen you asked before though. If this is your interpretation of the law, and you see someone OCing somewhere where that is posted, can or would you just go and write a citation or do you need the owner or manager request that the person be cited? Because if it is a matter up to the manager I really think most people would be safe neglecting to read a sign. I have not read about anyone who was charged with trespassing before being asked to leave. Not saying it can't be done, but in the many times this topic has been argued, no specific cases were ever brought up.

INAL

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BobCav wrote:

Big welcome to OCDO also! Remember, that only PEOPLE can be forbidden to trespass, not general "actions" such as carrying a gun. Upon discovering you are doing something they dislike or is against a posted "Rule of Conduct", you may then be asked to leave. Failing to immediately leave, you are only THEN trespassing.

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Plus one!

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LEO 229 wrote:

BobCav wrote:

Big welcome to OCDO also! Remember, that only PEOPLE can be forbidden to trespass, not general "actions" such as carrying a gun. Upon discovering you are doing something they dislike or is against a posted "Rule of Conduct", you may then be asked to leave. Failing to immediately leave, you are only THEN trespassing.

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Not exactly.....

Remember that in Virginia there is a code that clearly states"or by sign or signs" and this means you HAVE been notified. There is no requirement to tell you in person a second time what the sign already has the first time.

If they have a sign you can "clearly" readas you approach the door.... you are in trouble as soon as you go inside!! Depending on the size it may be an indication onhow strongly they appose the act.

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Unlike other states that require you to look for signs (Texas is an example), Virginia does not have have a requirement to look signs.

I have said this before, if you do not look for signs, then they cannot prove you were notified.

Biggest thing to remember... If you are asked to leave, leave. I have only been asked to leave somewhere twice in the six years I have been OC'ing in Virginia. One I left and have returned asked talking with the owner.

The second, I upset the County Sheriff's Deputy by telling him he did not have the authority to ask me to leave, only the property owner - doesn't matter if he doesn't like the fact that my gun was bigger than his or not - that's what he said:celebrate. Which was the second closest I have ever come to be arrested.

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possumboy wrote:

Unlike other states that require you to look for signs (Texas is an example), Virginia does not have have a requirement to look signs.

I have said this before, if you do not look for signs, then they cannot prove you were notified.

Biggest thing to remember... If you are asked to leave, leave. I have only been asked to leave somewhere twice in the six years I have been OC'ing in Virginia. One I left and have returned asked talking with the owner.

The second, I upset the County Sheriff's Deputy by telling him he did not have the authority to ask me to leave, only the property owner - doesn't matter if he doesn't like the fact that my gun was bigger than his or not - that's what he said:celebrate. Which was the second closest I have ever come to be arrested.

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You can try that defense in court but it will not work. :lol:

The code is clear and you would see a sign unless you were blind or dead.

If the courts believed your defense then any "No Trespassing" sign could be bypassed simply stating.. "I never looked for it your honor since I am not required to."

It is true that the police cannot enforce the signs posted unless they are called by someone in charge. However you must be cautious as they can be designated as "a person lawfully in charge" and they can charge you on their own.

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§ 15.2-1717.1. Designation of police to enforce trespass violations.

Any locality may by ordinance establish a procedure whereby the owner, lessee, custodian, or person lawfully in charge as those terms are used in § 18.2-119, of real property may designate the local law-enforcement agency as a "person lawfully in charge of the property" for the purpose of forbidding another to go or remain upon the lands, buildings or premises as specified in the designation. The ordinance shall require that any such designation be in writing and on file with the local law-enforcement agency.

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LEO 229 wrote:

You can try that defense in court but it will not work. :lol:

The code is clear and you would see a sign unless you were blind or dead.

If the courts believed your defense then any "No Trespassing" sign could be bypassed simply stating.. "I never looked for it your honor since I am not required to."

It is true that the police cannot enforce the signs posted unless they are called by someone in charge. However you must be cautious as they can be designated as "a person lawfully in charge" and they can charge you on their own.

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§ 15.2-1717.1. Designation of police to enforce trespass violations.

Any locality may by ordinance establish a procedure whereby the owner, lessee, custodian, or person lawfully in charge as those terms are used in § 18.2-119, of real property may designate the local law-enforcement agency as a "person lawfully in charge of the property" for the purpose of forbidding another to go or remain upon the lands, buildings or premises as specified in the designation. The ordinance shall require that any such designation be in writing and on file with the local law-enforcement agency.

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Where can you find that you have to be blind or deaf? I do not see it in the code. I cannot find anywhere in code that states I have to look for a sign. If you know of it, please provide it.

Also, based on case law, they were able to proved that the person was aware of the signs based on being asked to leave before.

The defense of I didn't look for it/didn't see itdoes work. Personal experience. Been there done that, in court. Hard to continue your argument based solely on what you think.

I'm also smart enough to know when I can legally push and when I cannot. I expect to get arrested sometimes based on ignorance of the law by law enforcement. I also have other reasons that I expect to not get arrested when it gets down to it.