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New to the forum/movie theater question

Tess

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LEO 229 wrote:
You can try that defense in court but it will not work. :lol:

The code is clear and you would see a sign unless you were blind or dead.
Interestingly enough, I went to a movie the other night in Fairfax County. To be safe, I was concealing. I looked for a sign, but did not see one.

Imagine my surprise when after I left the theater, I noticed the "no concealed weapons" sign at the very bottom of the exit door. D'ya s'pose I'll go back there?
 

LEO 229

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possumboy wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
You can try that defense in court but it will not work. :lol:

The code is clear and you would see a sign unless you were blind or dead.

If the courts believed your defense then any "No Trespassing" sign could be bypassed simply stating.. "I never looked for it your honor since I am not required to."

It is true that the police cannot enforce the signs posted unless they are called by someone in charge. However you must be cautious as they can be designated as "a person lawfully in charge" and they can charge you on their own. ;)

[line]

§ 15.2-1717.1. Designation of police to enforce trespass violations.

Any locality may by ordinance establish a procedure whereby the owner, lessee, custodian, or person lawfully in charge as those terms are used in § 18.2-119, of real property may designate the local law-enforcement agency as a "person lawfully in charge of the property" for the purpose of forbidding another to go or remain upon the lands, buildings or premises as specified in the designation. The ordinance shall require that any such designation be in writing and on file with the local law-enforcement agency.

Where can you find that you have to be blind or deaf? I do not see it in the code. I cannot find anywhere in code that states I have to look for a sign. If you know of it, please provide it.

Also, based on case law, they were able to proved that the person was aware of the signs based on being asked to leave before.

The defense of I didn't look for it/didn't see itdoes work. Personal experience. Been there done that, in court. Hard to continue your argument based solely on what you think.

I'm also smart enough to know when I can legally push and when I cannot. I expect to get arrested sometimes based on ignorance of the law by law enforcement. I also have other reasons that I expect to not get arrested when it gets down to it.
Well, obviously I was being facetious in regards to the blind or dead as this would be pointless, right? I sure hope you did not REALLY look for that. :lol:

Please post some case law and proof you were successful. This would be interesting to see. I am also aware that signs clearly posted have resulted in convictions for trespassing.

So you may be the exception to the law... :lol: Others... take your chances!!
 

LEO 229

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Tess wrote:
LEO 229 wrote:
You can try that defense in court but it will not work. :lol:

The code is clear and you would see a sign unless you were blind or dead.
Interestingly enough, I went to a movie the other night in Fairfax County. To be safe, I was concealing. I looked for a sign, but did not see one.

Imagine my surprise when after I left the theater, I noticed the "no concealed weapons" sign at the very bottom of the exit door. D'ya s'pose I'll go back there?
But Tess.... They all are marked!!

You will never get to goout the the movies again! ;)
 

Tess

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But Tess.... They all are marked!! You will never get to go out the the movies again! ;)
Could be. Might be I have to wait a whole month until it comes to DVD.

Understand what you're saying, but as I said, I was looking. I go to the movies so seldom that I can never remember which are posted. To post a sign at the bottom of an EXIT door is practically screaming "we don't mean it". Yes, I know your view on it, and no, I don't want to test it in court, but it seems in all but our justice system there should be some common sense somewhere.

There I go, using my brain again. Damn. :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:
 

cmbf117

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Welcome, VTNGNR. I just finished serving my 4 years at VT, always nice to see another hokie. :) You'll have no problems OCing around Blacksburg, but I'd heed the advice in this thread for the Regal in Christiansburg, too, if I were you. Though, I've never had a problem CCing into movies there...never noticed no stinkin' sign there, either! :p
 

Thundar

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LEO 229 wrote:
BobCav wrote:
Big welcome to OCDO also! Remember, that only PEOPLE can be forbidden to trespass, not general "actions" such as carrying a gun. Upon discovering you are doing something they dislike or is against a posted "Rule of Conduct", you may then be asked to leave. Failing to immediately leave, you are only THEN trespassing.

Not exactly..... ;)

Remember that in Virginia there is a code that clearly states"or by sign or signs" and this means you HAVE been notified. There is no requirement to tell you in person a second time what the sign already has the first time.

If they have a sign you can "clearly" readas you approach the door.... you are in trouble as soon as you go inside!! Depending on the size it may be an indication onhow strongly they appose the act.

I have personally seen on the Regal theater doors that guns are not allowed. This is not a "sign" andI wouldnot enforce it since it is mixed in with a ton of other stuff. To me, it is too small and can easily be overlooked.

But if the sign is obvious and you simply cannot miss it.... you will get a ticket at the property owners request.



18.2-119. Trespass after having been forbidden to do so; penalties.

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof,

or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen,

or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.




Here is an example of where one is not obvious where the other is.
LEO it is a good thing that you are a cop because you could not make it as as an English teacher.:lol:

Trespass after being forbidden to do so is the crime.

"forbidden to do so by a sign" is part of a dependent clause. It refers to trespass, not to signs that listconduct rules.

It is easy to test your sign hypothesis and mine. If violating rules of conduct were trespass, then violating any posted conduct rule would be trespass.

LEOhypothesis: Forbidden to do so by a sign is an independent clause in the law and violation ofa posted ruleis trespass.

Thundar hypothesis: Forbidden to do so by a sign is andependent clause in the law and violation ofa posted ruleis not trespass.

Test:The school I went to posted rules. One of those rules was no gum chewing. If I chew gum right under the sign am I trespassing? There can be no equivocation about the severity of the rule violation. The test is simple, does a rule violation = trespass? If the answer is yes then your hypothesis is correct. If the answer is no then my hypothesis is correct.

Just to be crystal clear, I think you can be charged with trespassing at a mall for not obeying a no trespassing sign. My example:

The mall has a loading bay where lots of expensive merchandise is unloaded. The area is clearly marked "No Trespassing". I ignore the signs and go intothe area that I have been forbidden to do so by a sign. Is this trespassing? I say yes. The signs give proper notice forbidding me to go or remain upon that property.
 

asforme

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Thundar wrote:
Test:The school I went to posted rules. One of those rules was no gum chewing. If I chew gum right under the sign am I trespassing? There can be no equivocation about the severity of the rule violation. The test is simple, does a rule violation = trespass? If the answer is yes then your hypothesis is correct. If the answer is no then my hypothesis is correct.

Just to be crystal clear, I think you can be charged with trespassing at a mall for not obeying a no trespassing sign. My example:

The mall has a loading bay where lots of expensive merchandise is unloaded. The area is clearly marked "No Trespassing". I ignore the signs and go intothe area that I have been forbidden to do so by a sign. Is this trespassing? I say yes. The signs give proper notice forbidding me to go or remain upon that property.
What about a "no hunting" sign? Is a hunter not trespassing until they have been asked to leave the property?

What if the wording of a sign at a movie theater was changed to say "anyone carrying a firearm on this property is trespassing". Would it then be enforceable as the sign isn't restricting the item, but the person carrying it.
 

Chkultr

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C45P312 wrote:
Not in Virginia Beach, though I normally conceal carry into movie theathers. I have done so in .....

- Lynnhaven AMC (VB)
- Columbus Regal (VB)
- MacArthur Regal (Norfolk)
- Cinema Cafe (Chesapeake)
I believe all of those movie theaters are posted! I know for a fact that Columbus Station is posted!
 

VTNGNR

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, Virginia, USA
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Regal Cinemas in Fredericksburg is definitely posted, with something to the effect of "no carry concealed or otherwise."

I've been to Marquee Cinemas in Massaponax twice over the last week, OCing both times. I've thoroughly scanned for any signage, and have seen none.Tonight, there were two officers standing in the hallway just after they take your tickets. I am sure that they saw my firearm, but no issues.
 

Tempest

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Mar 2, 2008
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Though this is an OC forum and I opted to CC, I thought my story might still be of some interest.

Went to Regal in Manassas tonight with my P226 in a belt holster at 5 o'clock and a decent coat as cover. There may very well be a sign posted somewhere, however I didn't see it as I walked in, and I certainly wasn't going to stand in the cold like a dummy searching for it. Anyhow, got my ticket and snacks, and as I was walking away from the concession stand I dropped the twizzlers and had an "oops" moment as I went from CC to OC while picking them up. Made a bee line for the theater room and tried to push it out of my mind. About five minutes before the movie started a leo briefly peeked around the corner into the seats and then left. Show starts, everything seems peachy until about halfway through when he returned with an usher and took up a position along the wall about two rows down from where I was sitting. He just stood there without budging for the last hour of the movie. I've never known the movie-patrol to do that, ever. So of course first comes the adrenaline rush, and the shakes, cold sweat, and I can almost hear my heart beating as visions of how bad this night is going to get start playing in my head. I force myself to stay put, keep sucking down soda and "be cool like Fonzie" while I play the sheep unaware of the man with the shiny thing on his chest. Show ends, and I get up and walk out with everyone else, giving the officer a casual nod as I pass. He didn't stop or follow me as I went to make peace with my vexed bladder. Then I got the hell out of dodge.

That to date has to be my most agonizing non-event.

With that said, I'm going back to the IWB holster until I get a longer coat.
 

richarcm

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Tempest wrote:
Though this is an OC forum and I opted to CC, I thought my story might still be of some interest.

Went to Regal in Manassas tonight with my P226 in a belt holster at 5 o'clock and a decent coat as cover. There may very well be a sign posted somewhere, however I didn't see it as I walked in, and I certainly wasn't going to stand in the cold like a dummy searching for it. Anyhow, got my ticket and snacks, and as I was walking away from the concession stand I dropped the twizzlers and had an "oops" moment as I went from CC to OC while picking them up. Made a bee line for the theater room and tried to push it out of my mind. About five minutes before the movie started a leo briefly peeked around the corner into the seats and then left. Show starts, everything seems peachy until about halfway through when he returned with an usher and took up a position along the wall about two rows down from where I was sitting. He just stood there without budging for the last hour of the movie. I've never known the movie-patrol to do that, ever. So of course first comes the adrenaline rush, and the shakes, cold sweat, and I can almost hear my heart beating as visions of how bad this night is going to get start playing in my head. I force myself to stay put, keep sucking down soda and "be cool like Fonzie" while I play the sheep unaware of the man with the shiny thing on his chest. Show ends, and I get up and walk out with everyone else, giving the officer a casual nod as I pass. He didn't stop or follow me as I went to make peace with my vexed bladder. Then I got the hell out of dodge.

That to date has to be my most agonizing non-event.

With that said, I'm going back to the IWB holster until I get a longer coat.
Moral of the story: just say no to the Twizzlers (they are gross anyways). :)
 

richarcm

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ProShooter wrote:
Sometimes I'm astounded at the bad information and opinions expressed here. Twizzlers are far from gross! They are in fact, quite delicious! :)
Show me where that is stated in writing....
 

richarcm

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I happened to find a gift card to Regal in my junk drawer a few weeks ago. Do you think that there would be an exception made during viewings of the new Bond movie? Surely these people understand the importance of this. I REALLY want to see the new Bond movie but it wouldn't make any sense to see it and not be armed.
 
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