Asked to Leave

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marine2000 wrote:

Hey that would be a good idea...!!!!!!!!

Maybe have the Media involved

Ed...

I am really not sure as to what their management has agreed on...!!!!

This is quite serious business, as i have already made a formal statement to Consumer Council.

I will be be posting that soon up here

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I'd say it would be best to confirm with management before doing that (OC dinner with media). It would be horrible to invite the media just to have a trainwreck on our hands for all to see...:banghead:

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ed wrote:

Maybe we need a dinner at a fair oaks mall restaurant?

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While I agree in principle, it's generally not a good idea to antagonize.

Usually it's better to let things lie for a short time, and resume normal behavior. I'm betting they have fairly high turnover on these mall security folks. Heavyhandedness on our part could cause the signs to go up, and that's not our desired result at all.

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Consumer council? Media? How many times have we seen this type of thing being an uninformed, poorly trained employee(s)? Why not just contact the mall management and tell them that you are very confused as there is no posting at the mall, several other people you have talked with who daily carry a firearm have carried into their mall and you don't understand why you were asked to leave on such and such a date by mall security? Describe the circumstances and give them a chance to respond.

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Tess wrote:

ed wrote:

Maybe we need a dinner at a fair oaks mall restaurant?

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While I agree in principle, it's generally not a good idea to antagonize.

Usually it's better to let things lie for a short time, and resume normal behavior. I'm betting they have fairly high turnover on these mall security folks. Heavyhandedness on our part could cause the signs to go up, and that's not our desired result at all.

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good point(s)

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I really don't see why the media would be a good idea. It isn't like they are friendly.

All managment cares about is $$$$. Hit them where it hurts.

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Okay, you were asked to leave. Others weren't, at one time or another. Maybe they weren't seen by folks in the know.

Everybody says, "I didn't see a sign." I saw it on their code of conduct years ago. It was posted by a bathroom then. Now, who knows. I left immediately and haven't been back in seven years. Posting is a convenience for the business owner. It simply isn't required by the law.

Since the mall is private property, you can be asked to leave for any reason. They can ask you to leave because you OC, and not ask someone else. It's their right, and they can get away with it because your right to carry is restricted on that very point. If you return to the mall with your gun, even CC, you are trespassing. Unless, that is, you get a different ruling from the mall management. I confirmed with mall management years ago, which is why you've never seen me there. I haven't found the stores to be so vital that I have bothered to re-verify.

I'm not mad at you, I'm angry at the sort of feel-safe mentality that leads to these bans. They ASSUME that other patrons will be concerned or scared, so they ban guns, or they think that it's a safety issue and so turn what is really safe situation into an unsafe one! Just read @ VCDL that malls/ parking lots are in the top five most dangerous places for women. A few more guns without uniforms would make it much less attractive to criminals.

Here endeth the rant...
Caltain

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caltain wrote:

I saw it on their code of conduct years ago. It was posted by a bathroom then. Caltain

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1) Somehow, this sounds like an appropriate place for it.

2) Was one of the rules "Aim Carefully"?

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Don't Ask Don't Tell ........



Interesting..!!!!!!

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Based on events like this over the years, I have advised people to CC in malls that are enclosed and have their own security and also movie theatres. If you don't see a sign, don't ask, don't tell.

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Hit em where it hurts? Isn't that the Oil Industries job? :cuss:

The Mall doesn't work on commission. Macy's, Sears, JCP, Macy's 2, L&T...the 50 cell phone kiosk, they all pay "rent". The same amount every month...whether you come or not. Your not hurting the mall, just the retailers there, who may not have the same outlook on OC'ing. I know, I work at one of those Ma...jor stores. Image is everything to the Mall. Not shopping there, will only hurt the stores who don't have a say in whether you OC or not (and not enough to put them out of business, and loose their space in the mall).

BTW, there is a Champps at FO mall.

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ORCGUY wrote:

SNIP Image is everything to the Mall.

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Ahhhhh. Then maybe picketing by 50-100 NoVAguncarriers would do the trick?

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VCDL President wrote:

Based on events like this over the years, I have advised people to CC in malls that are enclosed and have their own security and also movie theatres. If you don't see a sign, don't ask, don't tell.

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Many here do not legally have the option to CC.

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Citizen wrote:

ORCGUY wrote:

SNIP Image is everything to the Mall.

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Ahhhhh. Then maybe picketing by 50-100 NoVAguncarriers would do the trick?

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Good idea but it's private property so they'd just ask you to leave. You could picket at the main entrance(s). It would be best to have signs with a web address where you can tell your story. Few will stop to find out why you're there.

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Maybe book a 100 person dinner at champs (fair oaks) and have champps contact the mall office and say... "we just had a booking for 100 for dinner in our restaurant.. and one of the members was coming to to do a pre-flight on the mall and location was asked to leave... we want you to change your rules to allow law abiding citizens to law abide... etc etc.."

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ed wrote:

Maybe book a 100 person dinner at champs (fair oaks) and have champps contact the mall office and say... "we just had a booking for 100 for dinner in our restaurant.. and one of the members was coming to to do a pre-flight on the mall and location was asked to leave... we want you to change your rules to allow law abiding citizens to law abide... etc etc.."

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That's something I can get behind and it's much more productive than doing what we did in the past months.
This would acutally help change a policy or not and the outcome would have a direct impact on a business's bottom line that would be directly linked to their policies and their landlord's policies regarding OC and CC.
I'm in for dinner at Champs as long as we can OC at the FO Mall. Just tell me when. We could even book tables at 5 or 6 restaurants at the Mall at the same time to get more businesses involved in pressuring the Mall :lol:

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ufcfanvt wrote:

ed wrote:

Maybe book a 100 person dinner at champs (fair oaks) and have champps contact the mall office and say... "we just had a booking for 100 for dinner in our restaurant.. and one of the members was coming to to do a pre-flight on the mall and location was asked to leave... we want you to change your rules to allow law abiding citizens to law abide... etc etc.."

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That's something I can get behind and it's much more productive than doing what we did in the past months.
This would acutally help change a policy or not and the outcome would have a direct impact on a business's bottom line that would be directly linked to their policies and their landlord's policies regarding OC and CC.
I'm in for dinner at Champs as long as we can OC at the FO Mall. Just tell me when. We could even book tables at 5 or 6 restaurants at the Mall at the same time to get more businesses involved in pressuring the Mall :lol:

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And, call the store managers and tell them you will no longer be buying from their store since the mall has forbidden carry. Enough people doing that and the restaurant thing and everyone will be on their case.

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ORCGUY wrote:

Hit em where it hurts? Isn't that the Oil Industries job? :cuss:

The Mall doesn't work on commission. Macy's, Sears, JCP, Macy's 2, L&T...the 50 cell phone kiosk, they all pay "rent". The same amount every month...whether you come or not. Your not hurting the mall, just the retailers there, who may not have the same outlook on OC'ing. I know, I work at one of those Ma...jor stores. Image is everything to the Mall. Not shopping there, will only hurt the stores who don't have a say in whether you OC or not (and not enough to put them out of business, and loose their space in the mall).

BTW, there is a Champps at FO mall.

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:arrow: You may claim to know how rents a computed but you do not, sir. Having been individually and directly envolved in commercial property management and such lease negotiations for over 28 years allows me to speak with some authority.

:arrow: Malls routinely work on "commission." Tenants/stores typically pay a percentage of their profits over a base rent as additional rent. This is the norm, not the exception.
For high volume tenants, the participation in profits may be a significent portion of the total rent paid.

:arrow: Further, the main or anchor tenants do indeed have a lot to say about how the mall is operated. They simply take the position that we want this or that and the negotiations continue. Often their ideas are incorporated into policy as rules and regulations are changeable, not fixed in stone.

My $1.02 worth.

Yata hey

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Open carried into Fair Oaks Mall yesterday with another buddy who was also OC'ing. Walked around for about an hour. Went to John B Hayes to pick up some cigars. Aside from some looks and one of the security guards following us around, noone had any issues. We even walked past two of fairfax county's finest and they looked but said nothing. I made absolutely sure it wasn't posted at door we entered through. Perhaps management there had a change of heart...?

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Almost not worth mentioning, but I OCed at Sears in Fair Oaks Mall again today. There were even some folks I haven't seen before working there, but still no questions or funny looks from anyone.