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Thread: Dennys in Everett

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    Well I was at Dennys off 128th st last night and I asked to speak with the manager there about OCing there.I was not carrying at the time,but as far as he told me Dennys is no longer corporate and is franchised now so they can pick and choose what they wanna do about OC,as far as OCing at that Dennys he said he would not allow that.

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    bayfire66 wrote:
    Well I was at Dennys off 128th st last night and I asked to speak with the manager there about OCing there.I was not carrying at the time,but as far as he told me Dennys is no longer corporate and is franchised now so they can pick and choose what they wanna do about OC,as far as OCing at that Dennys he said he would not allow that.
    I think you will find this to be the shoot from the hip reaction you get anytime you ask a business manager if he will allow you to do something like open carry. I have actually OC'd at that Denny's in the past with no problems, I find it best usually to just do it and let the manager decide right then and there if his feelings toward gunsare worth him loosing a customer.

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    I have a policy of not asking first.

    When you ask you put them in the position of having to answer. NO is an easy answer and the one you will most likely receive. No thinking involved, no justification, just a reaction

    On the other hand, you walk in, get a seat, order your dinner.. then he notices you carrying. Now he actually has to think about what his response will be and justify it.

    Unfortunatly now he has already taken a position, and changing his mind will be harder.

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    Actually, his response is about what I got from a manager who I also consider my friend and that I've known for about a year. He was the same manager, Ryan, that we assumed was booting us from the Redmond Denny's for our monthly get-together (by the way, he wasn't, it was a misunderstanding, as I later clarified with him).

    He said he was cool with it and was fine with us coming back and having our group meetings there, but that if you OC'd at the one in Kent on Central Avenue, you'd probably get the cops called on you, due to that being one of the Denny's that's had a shooting at it. What's interesting is he said that a man was carrying (I don't recall if it was CC and he "outed" or OC) and the cops were called to talk to him; then, when one cop asked him to put the gun on the table, his partner saw "the man going for the gun" and shot him.

    So, actually, the shooting was a cop being dumb and/or partners not communicating. The victim was actually complying with an order from the LEO.

    Either way, it sounds like it really is a location-based type of policy, but you could contact corporate to clarify that.

    By the way, there is also a Denny's in Everett on Evergreen Way (Hwy 99/Aurora) just south of Casino Rd that I've OC'd at and that Ryan now manages nights at. I haven't been up there since he transfered from Redmond, though.
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    just_a_car wrote:
    but that if you OC'd at the one in Kent on Central Avenue, you'd probably get the cops called on you, due to that being one of the Denny's that's had a shooting at it.
    I've OC"d there with no problems. Not sure if mine was an isolated incident or not but no cops called. Kent has had a training bulletin on OC, i can't see why they'd come out.

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    Regular Member just_a_car's Avatar
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    rysa wrote:
    just_a_car wrote:
    but that if you OC'd at the one in Kent on Central Avenue, you'd probably get the cops called on you, due to that being one of the Denny's that's had a shooting at it.
    I've OC"d there with no problems. Not sure if mine was an isolated incident or not but no cops called. Kent has had a training bulletin on OC, i can't see why they'd come out.
    I'm just relating what he said. I've OC'd there once, also; strong-side out, no cops.
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    Asking permission will almost always result in a "No" answer.

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    Do you ask for permission to exercise any of your other civil rights?

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    Why did you ask?

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    Civil rights can refer to protection against public (government) and or private sector discrimination. In the United States, the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution protects citizens against many forms of State discrimination, with its due process and equal protection requirements. Civil rights can also refer to protection against private actors or entities. The U.S. Congress subsequently addressed the issue through the Civil Rights Act of 1964 Sec. 201. which states: (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin or sex

    The constitutional right to OC is a right granted by the state constitution in WA and codified in the RCW. It is a protection from State or State actors. It does not extend to private entities. You are free to carry up to the door of the business; the business on the other hand is free to allow or deny you access to their business - they are exercising their rights also.

    A good comparision would be the 4th Amendment against unreasonable search and seizures. It applies to all Federal actors just as written, it applies to the state actors via the 14th Amendment. It does not apply to private entities; if for example a bar as part of their business practice is to search everyone who enters or deny them entry...there are two choices submit to gain entry or take your business elswhere..but there is no civil or constitutional rights violation. They are simply exercises their rights just as you. And as can be seen from the CRA of 1964 nowhere does it mention guns.

    Just food for thought

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    bayfire66 wrote:
    Well I was at Dennys off 128th st last night and I asked to speak with the manager there about OCing there.I was not carrying at the time,but as far as he told me Dennys is no longer corporate and is franchised now so they can pick and choose what they wanna do about OC,as far as OCing at that Dennys he said he would not allow that.
    The minute you start asking for permission, people start thinking that it is their decision, not yours. I used to ask people permission to CC into their homes. Most of them, given the option, preffered that I didn't. Now I don't ask, because it's not up to them. If they have a problem, they can ask me to leave.

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    DrewGunner wrote:
    Why did you ask?
    I did not ask him if I could OC there I asked him how he felt about OC and what there policy is on it,he also said we could put some pamplets on our cause there if I wanted.It was just a question.Private Property owners have the right to do as they choose,just as it is our right to carry it's also there right to ask me or whoever to leave the premises.And besides I rarely go into that Dennys anyway.

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    Ive also OC'd at the 128th denny's 3 times or so now, never had a problem and other people noticed without complaints.



    Marcus

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    expvideo wrote:
    The minute you start asking for permission, people start thinking that it is their decision, not yours. I used to ask people permission to CC into their homes. Most of them, given the option, preffered that I didn't. Now I don't ask, because it's not up to them. If they have a problem, they can ask me to leave.
    +1

    By asking, you totally change the dynamics.

    Its much different when the homeowner or restauratuer seesa guest OCing.Then he has to decide whether to offend or cause a problem by asking you to remove it.

    Basically by asking, you are tacitly acknowledging that any answer he gives is his right to give, and that you will go along with it. By not asking, you are removing this element. He now has to calculate whether the potential loss, annoyance, insult, etc. to a guest is worth the asking. Of course, many won't ask, or even calculate--because that involves making a decision based on the calculation. They'll just go with the status quo.
    I'll make you an offer: I will argue and fight for all of your rights, if you will do the same for me. That is the only way freedom can work. We have to respect all rights, all the time--and strive to win the rights of the other guy as much as for ourselves.

    If I am equal to another, how can I legitimately govern him without his express individual consent?

    There is no human being on earth I hate so much I would actually vote to inflict government upon him.

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    Interesting, because the Denny's in Shelton follows state law per the manager. She is a shooter herself and her husband is retired military and her son has just returned from Iraq. As you can see I know her personally, but before I would cause her a problem I asked. It's true, the Denny's are all franchized now.

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    I never ask permission to exercise my civil rights..

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    This is America. I don't have to ask foranyone's permission to carrya gun.

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    expvideo wrote:
    This is America. I don't have to ask foranyone's permission to carrya gun.
    Wrong, on private property you do. The Constitution limits what the Government can do, but other citizen rights can and do over ride yours. In other words you have the right to do whatever you want, as long is it does not interfer with another persons rights.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    This is America. I don't have to ask foranyone's permission to carrya gun.
    Wrong, on private property you do. The Constitution limits what the Government can do, but other citizen rights can and do over ride yours. In other words you have the right to do whatever you want, as long is it does not interfer with another persons rights.
    No, YOU are wrong. They have every right to ask me not to carry, or post a sign asking me not to carry, but I have NO expectation to ask them permission. If they have a problem with it, it's their burden to say something, not mine. I don't have to ask their permission. That doesn't mean I don't have to leave if they ask me to, or obey signs.

    I don't have to ask for anyone's permission to carry a gun. If they have a problem, they have to ask me not to carry it, not the other way around.

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    expvideo wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    This is America. I don't have to ask foranyone's permission to carrya gun.
    Wrong, on private property you do. The Constitution limits what the Government can do, but other citizen rights can and do over ride yours. In other words you have the right to do whatever you want, as long is it does not interfer with another persons rights.
    No, YOU are wrong. They have every right to ask me not to carry, or post a sign asking me not to carry, but I have NO expectation to ask them permission. If they have a problem with it, it's their burden to say something, not mine. I don't have to ask their permission. That doesn't mean I don't have to leave if they ask me to, or obey signs.

    I don't have to ask for anyone's permission to carry a gun. If they have a problem, they have to ask me not to carry it, not the other way around.
    I think we need to agree to disagree on this one, because I feel a person needs to respect others rights if you want yours respected.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    This is America. I don't have to ask foranyone's permission to carrya gun.
    Wrong, on private property you do. The Constitution limits what the Government can do, but other citizen rights can and do over ride yours. In other words you have the right to do whatever you want, as long is it does not interfer with another persons rights.
    No, YOU are wrong. They have every right to ask me not to carry, or post a sign asking me not to carry, but I have NO expectation to ask them permission. If they have a problem with it, it's their burden to say something, not mine. I don't have to ask their permission. That doesn't mean I don't have to leave if they ask me to, or obey signs.

    I don't have to ask for anyone's permission to carry a gun. If they have a problem, they have to ask me not to carry it, not the other way around.
    I think we need to agree to disagree on this one, because I feel a person needs to respect others rights if you want yours respected.
    Except that you aren't disrespecting their rights. You are exercising your right. If at any time they feel that they want you off their property they can walk over and ask you to leave. No one in this thread has suggested that you should tell them to go to hell and keep eating your breakfast. If they want you to leave they can ask and then you leave. You have just respected their right to ask you to leave for actions that they disagree with.

    How is this any different than if I went into the restaurant wearing a campaign button? Should I ask permission to wear a campaign button prior to entering? Absolutely not. If they are not pleased with people wearing campaign buttons in their establishment they can ask me to cover up my button or leave. I can then make the choice to not patronize them or comply with their wishes regarding my button.

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    heresolong wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    This is America. I don't have to ask foranyone's permission to carrya gun.
    Wrong, on private property you do. The Constitution limits what the Government can do, but other citizen rights can and do over ride yours. In other words you have the right to do whatever you want, as long is it does not interfer with another persons rights.
    No, YOU are wrong. They have every right to ask me not to carry, or post a sign asking me not to carry, but I have NO expectation to ask them permission. If they have a problem with it, it's their burden to say something, not mine. I don't have to ask their permission. That doesn't mean I don't have to leave if they ask me to, or obey signs.

    I don't have to ask for anyone's permission to carry a gun. If they have a problem, they have to ask me not to carry it, not the other way around.
    I think we need to agree to disagree on this one, because I feel a person needs to respect others rights if you want yours respected.
    Except that you aren't disrespecting their rights. You are exercising your right. If at any time they feel that they want you off their property they can walk over and ask you to leave. No one in this thread has suggested that you should tell them to go to hell and keep eating your breakfast. If they want you to leave they can ask and then you leave. You have just respected their right to ask you to leave for actions that they disagree with.

    How is this any different than if I went into the restaurant wearing a campaign button? Should I ask permission to wear a campaign button prior to entering? Absolutely not. If they are not pleased with people wearing campaign buttons in their establishment they can ask me to cover up my button or leave. I can then make the choice to not patronize them or comply with their wishes regarding my button.
    You really don't get it do you. You seem to think only your rights are the onlyimportant rights and screw everyone else, you would make a great dictator. That's not the way in works. You have no right to step on anyone elses rights, if you expect no one to step on yours. Your way is anarchy, not democracy.

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    You really don't get it do you. You seem to think only your rights are the onlyimportant rights and screw everyone else, you would make a great dictator. That's not the way in works. You have no right to step on anyone elses rights, if you expect no one to step on yours. Your way is anarchy, not democracy.

    You're the one that doesn't get it. Are you really this stupid? I mean I've met some stupid people before, but this is the most retarded thing I think I've ever heard.

    If they don't want me to carry a gun on their property, that is fine, and it is their right to say so. No one is saying otherwise. But they have to let me know by posting a sign or asking me to not carry the gun. I don't have to ask them permission to carry. Do you even carry a gun Bear? Do you ask all of the store owners if it's ok for you to carry before you enter their stores? Do you ask all of the restaurant owners if it is ok for you to carry before you eat? Why in God's name would you do that? It's your right to carry a gun, so you don't have to ask for anyone's permission. It's their right to ask you to not carry a gun, but they have to ask you or post a sign, you can't just assume that I know that you don't want me carrying a gun at your restaurant, and I'm not going to ask your permission, because it's my right to do so. If you have a problem with it, tell me and I'll respect your rights and leave.

    What is wrong with that? What are you suggesting that we do? Ask permission from everyone before entering their homes/businesses/offices/churches/cars/etc? Why should we have to ask permission to exercise our rights? Do you understand what rights are?


    I'm not going to ask the waiter if it's ok for me to wear a blue polo shirt, brown sneakers, a campaign button or a gun. If they don't allow sneakers or polo shirts, they need to put up a sign or tell me, and then I will leave. I don't see why a gun is any different.

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    expvideo wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    You really don't get it do you. You seem to think only your rights are the onlyimportant rights and screw everyone else, you would make a great dictator. That's not the way in works. You have no right to step on anyone elses rights, if you expect no one to step on yours. Your way is anarchy, not democracy.

    You're the one that doesn't get it. Are you really this stupid? I mean I've met some stupid people before, but this is the most retarded thing I think I've ever heard.

    If they don't want me to carry a gun on their property, that is fine, and it is their right to say so. No one is saying otherwise. But they have to let me know by posting a sign or asking me to not carry the gun. I don't have to ask them permission to carry. Do you even carry a gun Bear? Do you ask all of the store owners if it's ok for you to carry before you enter their stores? Do you ask all of the restaurant owners if it is ok for you to carry before you eat? Why in God's name would you do that? It's your right to carry a gun, so you don't have to ask for anyone's permission. It's their right to ask you to not carry a gun, but they have to ask you or post a sign, you can't just assume that I know that you don't want me carrying a gun at your restaurant, and I'm not going to ask your permission, because it's my right to do so. If you have a problem with it, tell me and I'll respect your rights and leave.

    What is wrong with that? What are you suggesting that we do? Ask permission from everyone before entering their homes/businesses/offices/churches/cars/etc? Why should we have to ask permission to exercise our rights? Do you understand what rights are?


    I'm not going to ask the waiter if it's ok for me to wear a blue polo shirt, brown sneakers, a campaign button or a gun. If they don't allow sneakers or polo shirts, they need to put up a sign or tell me, and then I will leave. I don't see why a gun is any different.
    You wouldn't last 20 minutes in a true anarchy. You haven't learned that you are not the only one with rights and your rights are not supreme. Ifyou step on my rights I willsmash you like the arrogant bug that you are. Your logic is so flawed that for you to call me stupid is laughable. It's jackasses like you who are destroying this country with your "me first and screw the rest of you" attitude. Your lack of respect for others rights shows that you deserve to loose any rights you think you have. This is a limited freedom we live in here in the USA, not this fantasy you have created to boost your little ego..

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    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    expvideo wrote:
    Bear 45/70 wrote:
    You really don't get it do you. You seem to think only your rights are the onlyimportant rights and screw everyone else, you would make a great dictator. That's not the way in works. You have no right to step on anyone elses rights, if you expect no one to step on yours. Your way is anarchy, not democracy.

    You're the one that doesn't get it. Are you really this stupid? I mean I've met some stupid people before, but this is the most retarded thing I think I've ever heard.

    If they don't want me to carry a gun on their property, that is fine, and it is their right to say so. No one is saying otherwise. But they have to let me know by posting a sign or asking me to not carry the gun. I don't have to ask them permission to carry. Do you even carry a gun Bear? Do you ask all of the store owners if it's ok for you to carry before you enter their stores? Do you ask all of the restaurant owners if it is ok for you to carry before you eat? Why in God's name would you do that? It's your right to carry a gun, so you don't have to ask for anyone's permission. It's their right to ask you to not carry a gun, but they have to ask you or post a sign, you can't just assume that I know that you don't want me carrying a gun at your restaurant, and I'm not going to ask your permission, because it's my right to do so. If you have a problem with it, tell me and I'll respect your rights and leave.

    What is wrong with that? What are you suggesting that we do? Ask permission from everyone before entering their homes/businesses/offices/churches/cars/etc? Why should we have to ask permission to exercise our rights? Do you understand what rights are?


    I'm not going to ask the waiter if it's ok for me to wear a blue polo shirt, brown sneakers, a campaign button or a gun. If they don't allow sneakers or polo shirts, they need to put up a sign or tell me, and then I will leave. I don't see why a gun is any different.
    You wouldn't last 20 minutes in a true anarchy. You haven't learned that you are not the only one with rights and your rights are not supreme. Ifyou step on my rights I willsmash you like the arrogant bug that you are. Your logic is so flawed that for you to call me stupid is laughable. It's jackasses like you who are destroying this country with your "me first and screw the rest of you" attitude. Your lack of respect for others rights shows that you deserve to loose any rights you think you have. This is a limited freedom we live in here in the USA, not this fantasy you have created to boost your little ego..
    What do you suggest? By your logic, you had better ask me if it's ok for you to have a cell phone in your pocket before you enter my home, because it's my right to approve that cell phone. Do you ask the waiter at the restaurant if it's ok for you to have a cell phone? Do you ask if it's OK for you to have car keys?

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