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Thread: State-wide police "training day" needed to stop ongoing Keystone Cop gun grabs!

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    ************************************************** **********
    OpenCarry.org Press Release - May 20, 2008
    ************************************************** **********
    FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
    [1]

    ************************************************** **********
    OpenCarry.org calls for a state-wide police “training day” to stop ongoing Keystone Cop gun grabs!


    Dickson City, PA police report on the Dickson Dozen round-up “sounds like a bad episode of Hogan’s Heroes” says Allentown, PA lawyer Brian Collins

    Apparently Dickson City Police Chief and Lackawanna County ADA did not get the memo: Rep. Cruz’s gun registration bill (HB 760) was laughed out of Harrisburg last year

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    The police report is out. Read it at http://scrantontimestribune.com/proj...licereport.pdf.

    And gun owner discussion threads are ablaze at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/11071.html & http://www.pafoa.org/forum/news-123/...n-dispute.html.

    And based upon this report, and the analysis by the Scranton Times-tribune’s Charles Schillinger at http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...0572&rfi=8 (“Report shows confusion on gun dispute”) it’s not lookin’ good for Dickson City Police Chief Stadniski nor Lackawanna County Assistant Attorney Kolcharno who jointly ordered the confiscation of lawfully owned handguns from PA residents Rich Banks and Roger Mccarren. Banks’ gun has not yet been returned to him, and Mccarren’s gun was inexplicably given by police to another citizen who did NOT own the gun.

    The fact that neither the police nor the ADA have stepped up the plate and come clean to admit that there is no gun registration in PA and that no law limits gun carry to guns somehow “linked” in police databases to the carrier indicates that Stadniski & Kolcharno and, from recent Internet chatter about other similar police gun grabs around the Keystone State, many police officers and DAs across PA must have missed the memo – i.e., that Rep. Cruz’s gun registration bill (HB 760) was laughed out of Harrisburg last year![2]

    OpenCarry.org therefore calls on Governor Rendell to declare a state wide “training day” for police and DAs to prevent any more Keystone Cop gun confiscations.

    For starters, every police officer and DA should be required to sign a statement that they have read 18 Pa.C.S § 6111.4 which provides that “[n]otwithstanding any section of this chapter to the contrary, nothing in this chapter shall be construed to allow any govern­ment or law enforcement agency or any agent thereof to create, maintain or operate any registry of firearm ownership within this Commonwealth[/b].” Further, the law enforcement community must be made to understand that carriage of a handgun is not unlawful even if the PA State Police record of sale database happens to indicate that at one point in the past life of the handgun it was transferred to person other than the current possessor. Finally, the police and DAs need to acknowledge that absent reasonable suspicion of a crime, they have no right to even temporarily seize guns to check serial numbers any more than they may lawfully demand to check people’s cell phone SIM card serial numbers.

    NOTE: The Keystone Cops’ gun grabs in Dickson City will be the topic of Alex Jones’ nation-wide radio/short wave show on http://www.infowars.com from 1-4PM East Coast Time. Guests will include Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association member Bill Grumbine speaking on the Dickson Dozen police round up.

    John Pierce/Mike Stollenwerk

    ##########################
    Contact anytime on gun stories:
    --
    Mike Stollenwerk
    Mr. Stollenwerk is a lifelong legal resident of Lancaster County, PA. In 2006, Stollenwerk prevailed in a federal lawsuit against the Pennsylvania State Police to quash their unlawful demands for social security number disclosure from gun purchasers and License to Carry Firearms applicants. Stollenwerk v. Miller, 2006 WL 463393 (E.D. Pa. 2006).
    --
    John Pierce
    Mr. Pierce is an IT professional and works for an Allentown, PA area firm.
    --
    http://www.OpenCarry.org
    A national pro-gun Internet community with more than 5,700 registered
    members
    News media reports citing OpenCarry.org's perspective:
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum63
    ##########################

    [1] See previous press release focusing on the unlawful police detention, searches, and arrests of the Dickson Dozen at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/10755.html, and summary of last week’s Dickson City borough council meeting at http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum46/10896.html.


    [2] See e.g.[/i], [/i]Tom Mitchell, Official says gun bill doomed[/i], Leader Times[/b], April 13, 2007, available at http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/leadertimes/s_502548.html; Brad Bumstead, Extreme gun control[/i], Pittsburgh Tribune Review, April 22, 2007, available at http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/columnists/steigerwald/s_503956.html. [/b]

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    While a documented training day is certainly an excellent idea and would be a very effective way to handle the educational route, it takes willing participants to complete.

    I suspect that the only real motivation to get this situation corrected is via a lawsuit. Sad to say, as it takes a lot of time and money to get done, but may well be a necessity to send the point home to 'officials' with considerable, excess hubris. Pride will, and has so far prevented them from acting in accordance with law AND admitting a mistake AND presenting a documentable corrective action plan to the public.

    Having said that, even though I'm not a resident of PA nor ever expect to be, I would contribute to a specific fund to facilitate a lawsuit in an effort to remedy this situation. Why would I? 1. It could have been me. 2. If more firearms owners did this across state lines, we would be a most formidable foe and a lot less likely to be challenged in our 2A rights anywhere.

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    How often has this same story played out nationwide? It's time to form an organization of real gun rights activists, one with an aggressive, offensive position, forget playing defense. Pool our limited resources, take them to court immediately. Go after the officers in their individual capacity, hit 'em where it hurts, in their OWN pocketbook. Education? Once you pop a few of them, personally, word WILL get out. Take any monies recovered and plow it back into the fund. All this would take is one, GOOD, motivated attorney who shares our beliefs.
    Ready to rumble......................I like to see results:celebrate

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    mark edward marchiafava wrote:
    How often has this same story played out nationwide? It's time to form an organization of real gun rights activists, one with an aggressive, offensive position, forget playing defense. Pool our limited resources, take them to court immediately. Go after the officers in their individual capacity, hit 'em where it hurts, in their OWN pocketbook. Education? Once you pop a few of them, personally, word WILL get out. Take any monies recovered and plow it back into the fund. All this would take is one, GOOD, motivated attorney who shares our beliefs.
    Well, find that attorney, and I'll throw some money toward the case.

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    If you all are looking for an attorney, wouldn't help to contact the NRA? I think they have a database on attorneys who are familiar with gun issues.

    I don't want to be a wet blanket here, but the lawsuit might not have much to go on. Civil actions are based on "damages" and if the only damages here were inconveniences and rude treatment, the damages won't amount to much. I wish that were otherwise, but here in VA, the cops pointed a pistol at Danbus' head and were clearly in the wrong in their dealings with him, but his attorney said there wouldn't be much to sue over nonetheless. IANALAIDPOOTV, so let's hear opinions from any legal authorities out there.

    If there is a case, I'll contribute money to help. It sounds like the only people who knew the facts on the law were the victims! The officials were totally clueless and have operated in bad faith to boot.

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    I hope something comes of this. From what I heard from old friends that lived in the scranton/dickson city area, the PD is a joke there. They spend the majority of their time at the local university going on the prowl for house parties; yet when their friend was robbed and beaten, they didn't do anything.

    I'm not saying all police are like this, and im sure they arent, but the PR they have is declining and the few police on power trips are ruining it for everyone. I support this 'training day' fully and hope the gun they stole is returned.

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    How about a Armed Million Man March on Washington...?

    Could you image what would happen in D.C. if a million , Law abiding, armed citizens showed up to protest this type of treatment.

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    Lthrnck wrote:
    Could you image what would happen in D.C. if a million , Law abiding, armed citizens showed up to protest this type of treatment.
    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/forum65/10745.html

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    Lthrnck wrote:
    How about a Armed Million Man March on Washington...?

    Could you image what would happen in D.C. if a million , Law abiding, armed citizens showed up to protest this type of treatment.
    Probably why guns are banned there. :shock:

    Politicians are scared of guns.

    Anyway to get a permit for all attending?

    I'm in!



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