My ONLY negative OC experience in 10+ years...

Hurray! Slept another whole hour! It's not much, but I'll probably be good to go for another half a day on that. Seems that I've adapted to the condition somewhat.

Okay, here's the short version of the aftermath.

I contacted the Washington field office the same day and filed a verbal complaint. The nice FBI folks of the nations capital took this VERY seriously, as they should have. They called back with a preliminary result of their investigation in just over two hours. This wiener had potentially violated my second, fourth and fifth amendment rights, and at least 17 department policies or directives, at first investigation. The final number was higher, but I never got the final count.

They politely inquired if I thought I might wish to file suit, or allow them to deal with the matter directly. As I am always willing to hand the man in the hole a bigger shovel, I said that we'd start with letting them try to resolve the situation.

The agent was given three months suspension w/o pay, and three months suspension with pay. He also got to then return to the academy for six months of remedial training. I also got to place a victim's impact statement permanently in his personnel file. My idea, thank you very much ;-)

Now, why didn't I file a law suit? Because once the lawyers get involved, it's about money, not about fixing the problem. I didn't want the agent to be bitter, I wanted him fixed and bitter. Hence the route I took. I could have always filed suit in the end, and still can. They never even asked me my intention again, and I signed no documents except my initial complaint statement and the VI statement that I wrote for his file. I felt that since I was uninjired and not even late for work, that this was a fair resolution to the problem. He gave up a year of his professional life and any hope of advancement for that stunt.

All that said, I know that he acted with the best of intentions to proctect his family and the public from a perceived threat. He just didn't do it the right way. I'd rather have someone that wants to do good than someone that wants power fighting in the trenches, as heart will often carry a man further than brains.

I did get my license back from the deputy that responded. The agent gave it to him before making his statement at the scene.

I also assume that he paid for his meal, but I have no proof. That wasn't the part of the deal I was interested in...;-)

Hope that clears up the questions that may be lingering...

Caltain aka Dan Brooks

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And so is mine according to "The oath of allegiance " when I became a U.S Citizen back in Jan 2008. But I am not a Cop or a Fed, etc.

(Sarcasm)So does this mean that I should be able to carry EVERYWHERE in the U.S???(Sarcasm)


Oath of Allegiance for Naturalized Citizens

Oath of Allegiance


The oath of allegiance is:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."





TJ

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UTOC-45-44 wrote:

And so is mine according to "The oath of allegiance " when I became a U.S Citizen back in Jan 2008. But I am not a Cop or a Fed, etc.

(Sarcasm)So does this mean that I should be able to carry EVERYWHERE in the U.S???(Sarcasm)


Oath of Allegiance for Naturalized Citizens

Oath of Allegiance


The oath of allegiance is:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."





TJ

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UTOC-45-44 -

I am surprised that you did not also highlight " ...that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law...".

I'm a Federal Gov't civilian employee, so I took a similar oath. While I may NOT be required by law to bear arms, it is certainly my right to KEEP and BEAR arms!

I'm glad that he FBI took the steps it did against that agent. I think too many times in the USG actions do not have consequences. This story helps restore my faith a little. Now if only I can get the City of Alexandria to do the same against its ignorant police officers.

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XD Owner wrote:

UTOC-45-44 wrote:

And so is mine according to "The oath of allegiance " when I became a U.S Citizen back in Jan 2008. But I am not a Cop or a Fed, etc.

(Sarcasm)So does this mean that I should be able to carry EVERYWHERE in the U.S???(Sarcasm)


Oath of Allegiance for Naturalized Citizens

Oath of Allegiance


The oath of allegiance is:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."





TJ

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UTOC-45-44 -

I am surprised that you did not also highlight " ...that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law...".

I'm a Federal Gov't civilian employee, so I took a similar oath. While I may NOT be required by law to bear arms, it is certainly my right to KEEP and BEAR arms!

I'm glad that he FBI took the steps it did against that agent. I think too many times in the USG actions do not have consequences. This story helps restore my faith a little. Now if only I can get the City of Alexandria to do the same against its ignorant police officers.

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You are right. I just took that line for granted since I carry EVERY day 24/7.:celebrate

TJ

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Not in this thread, please. I know that you are just curious,and asking very politely, but it' a not relevant to the thread, and anyone that would swear or affirm to uphold the ideals that many Americans don't believe in or support is a true American regardless of the accident of his birth. That he's got my back, as you do is more than enough for me.

On topic, the agent seemed to like being from NY City. It makes the job easier when, if you aren't the best armed guy in the room, you can assume that the guy who has you beat is a criminal. Makes the job easier than having to think all the time, don't you think?

Caltain aka Dan

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.... I didn't want the agent to be bitter, I wanted him fixed and bitter....

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The agent was given three months suspension w/o pay, and three months suspension with pay. He also got to then return to the academy for six months of remedial training. I also got to place a victim's impact statement permanently in his personnel file. My idea, thank you very much ;-)

Now, why didn't I file a law suit? Because once the lawyers get involved, it's about money, not about fixing the problem.

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I've been carrying openly in NOVA, specifically Reston-Herndon-Sterling area, for over ten years. In all that time, I've only had one negative experience. This happened three years ago, but I just found you guys. ;-)

I was at the IHOP in Sterling on Rte. 7 on a Saturday morning. I've been having breakfast there, and carrying openly, several times a week since the day they opened. I don't order anymore, they just bring my usual when I sit down. Great people there, by the way.

Having finished my meal, I qued up to pay. For those that don't know, it's a pay at the front affair there. So I'm standing about three deep in the line and someone leans on my right side, from the rear, or about my 4 o'clock. I shoot right, so my Sig was holstered on that side, and someone was now leaning on me, making contact from thigh to shoulder.

Needless to say that I was pretty concerned because the pressure didn't immediately disappear, as it would if someone had fallen or been pushed into me. I turned to look and took a half-step left 'cause that was all the room I had in the crowd by the register. As I move left, so does the guy leaning up against me, sustaining the fill-side contact.

As soon as we make eye contact he says "Should I be worried?" Stunned and confused (just gave up caffeine the day before) I replied "Excuse me?!?"

He repeats the question and adds "I see a gun, but I don't see a badge." I stated that was because I have a gun and I don't have a badge. He immediately commanded me to show him some ID. I refused and he demanded again that I produce my ID. Lather, rinse, repeat. You all know the drill, I'm sure. All the while, he's still pinning my gun with his body and I have no room to move.

Near the end of this merry-go-round, he says he's with FBI and repeats the demand for ID. When I again refused, for the seventh time (I counted) and demanded that he show me his credentials, HE refused. Then he upps the ante saying show him some ID or he's going to call 911. I twice more demanded to see his credentials while he continued to demand that I produce ID. He caved first when I said that if he didn't produce his creds, I was gonna call 911 and whipped out my cell and started dialing. After he flashed his creds, I showed him my license, which he removed from my wallet and put in his pocket. He's still leaning on me, by the way.

He then orders me to exit the restaurant so he can call for a local cruiser to pick me up. I refused, on the grounds that I hadn't yet paid, which would be illegal. He said "they'll wait." I replied that so would I, and so would he.

Apparently, my bald defiance and icy calm demeanor made him decide that it would be a bad idea to try to frog-march me out the door, so we waited untill I had paid. As he was following me out the door, he asked "Is that thing loaded?" I stopped dead in my tracks. "Absolutely" I replied in a low tone, "and chambered." No response to that one...

When we got outside, he whips out his cell phone and orders me to go stand by a nearby sign, away from the door. I complied and leaned against the sign. Doing my best James Dean, I lit a cigarette and waited while he called 911. The rest of the story is best as dialogue, so...

"Police emergency," he says.
"I have a man here with a gun!"
Pause.
"No, Ma'am, he's not brandishing it..."
Pause.
"Well, it's in a holster on his hip."
Pause.
"No, he's not law enforcement."
Pause.
"Yes, ma'am..."
Pause.
"Yes,ma'am"
Pause.
"No, ma'am."
Pause.
"Agent -----, with the FBI..."
Pause.
"No, ma'am, I don't think we need an officer to respond. "

At this point I leaned forward and took the cell phone from him and told the operator that I was the victim, and I wanted an officer to respond immediately. I then hung up and returned his phone.

The cruiser arrived about a minute later. The nice deputy questioned us both, and then pointedly and loudly asked if I wanted to file assault charges. I stated that I feared reprisals, and asked him to just document the case, which he did.

Sorry for the long narrative, but the tale begs detail. Otherwise, it would just be too much to believe.

Thoughts? Comments?

Caltain aka Dan Brooks

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caltain wrote:

Hurray! Slept another whole hour! It's not much, but I'll probably be good to go for another half a day on that. Seems that I've adapted to the condition somewhat.

Okay, here's the short version of the aftermath.

I contacted the Washington field office the same day and filed a verbal complaint. The nice FBI folks of the nations capital took this VERY seriously, as they should have. They called back with a preliminary result of their investigation in just over two hours. This wiener had potentially violated my second, fourth and fifth amendment rights, and at least 17 department policies or directives, at first investigation. The final number was higher, but I never got the final count.

They politely inquired if I thought I might wish to file suit, or allow them to deal with the matter directly. As I am always willing to hand the man in the hole a bigger shovel, I said that we'd start with letting them try to resolve the situation.

The agent was given three months suspension w/o pay, and three months suspension with pay. He also got to then return to the academy for six months of remedial training. I also got to place a victim's impact statement permanently in his personnel file. My idea, thank you very much ;-)

Now, why didn't I file a law suit? Because once the lawyers get involved, it's about money, not about fixing the problem. I didn't want the agent to be bitter, I wanted him fixed and bitter. Hence the route I took. I could have always filed suit in the end, and still can. They never even asked me my intention again, and I signed no documents except my initial complaint statement and the VI statement that I wrote for his file. I felt that since I was uninjired and not even late for work, that this was a fair resolution to the problem. He gave up a year of his professional life and any hope of advancement for that stunt.

All that said, I know that he acted with the best of intentions to proctect his family and the public from a perceived threat. He just didn't do it the right way. I'd rather have someone that wants to do good than someone that wants power fighting in the trenches, as heart will often carry a man further than brains.

I did get my license back from the deputy that responded. The agent gave it to him before making his statement at the scene.

I also assume that he paid for his meal, but I have no proof. That wasn't the part of the deal I was interested in...;-)

Hope that clears up the questions that may be lingering...

Caltain aka Dan Brooks

Click to expand...

Hero, Hero, HERO:celebrate:celebrate:celebrate

The steps you and they took are good and hopefully will make him a better Agent. I'm glad he still has a job.

Law suits can be nasty and will just lead to further problems with him and his family, financially.

Good Job.

TJ

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# 4 The Bureau doesn't send agents back for six months remedial training.

#5 The Bureau doesn't suspend agents for 3 months without pay & 6 months with pay BLA BLA BLA . They transfer you, move you to admin or end your career.

The above outcome you claim has never happened in FBI history. Even when an agent ( John Connolly) supplied information to organized crime members in Boston resulting in the deaths of several people. He is currently in Federal prison.

#6 If you file a complaint against an agent, you will not be advised of the outcome because it is a personnel matter.

#7 Victim impact letter in his file ? LOL :banghead:

You are an idiot for even posting this bullshit lie. This never happened and you will soon be exposed for all to see. When an agent shows up at your door don't be shocked. They investigate false reports of agent misconduct.

Postinglies like this hurts the cause of open carry.

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This sounds like bullshit to me, I don't believe an FBI agent would do such an ignorant thing. First of all the Northern Virginia area has it's own field office, HQ in Washington is mainly an administrative office...

I'm calling a friend that lives in Chantilly, Vathat is a special agent assigned to the Northern Virginia office. We will find out real quick if there is or ever was an agent Leaner.

I'm betting on NO being the answer. The FBI takes bogus claims with respect to agent conduct very seriously.

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I dislike seeing dissension within our ranks.

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