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Thread: Closing the gunshow loop hole

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    Campaign Veteran kimbercarrier's Avatar
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    http://www.dailypress.com/news/opini...0,824495.story

    Here's a piece that will make you duct tape your head. Now they claim the cartels are arming themselves from gun shows. Here's a novel idea close the freakin border.

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    I just sent the author this comment:

    --

    Subject: weak facts and reasoning on guns

    re http://www.dailypress.com/news/opini...0,824495.story

    I don't understand how you can allege that AK-47s can be bought at gun shows without background checks - AK-47s are machine guns - nobody can lawfully deliver one until the buyer obtains a tax stamp from the BATFE. If you mean some other type of gun, that is not a machine gun, you should not use the term AK-47. It's like callingHUMMER a tank.

    There was nevera "ban on assault gun purchases" in the United States. First, the 1994 assault weapons act you refer too, expiring in 2004, did not ban purchases of any guns - just banned new importationor domestic manufacture of certain cosmetically offensive normal rifles firing one round per pull of the trigger. All the existing cosmetically offensive weapons continued to lawfully possessed and traded/sold. Further, you can't honestly believe that the Second Amendment permits Congress to ban normal garden variety rifles commonly in use across our country, can you? See United States v. Miller; Parker v. DC.

    I do like your cites to Milton Freidman and the RAND corporation regarding the proposition that "prohibition of socially disallowed drugs can increase their cost, it can never halt demand." I have met Milton Friedman, and worked at RAND. And soI find it odd that you refuse to apply this logic to "prohibition of socially disallowed guns." Right now, across America, Americans largely have freedom of contract in guns - no background checks or registration of private transfers, see map at http://www.opencarry.org/transfers.html. And generally, Americans need no license to openly carry guns in America.

    Mexico has a crime problem despite it's own internal draconian gun control laws. Criminals' demand for guns will be price inelastic just like the drug user's demand for drugs. And making it hard for Americans to exercise their natural and constitutional right to arms will be the only real result of your policy recommendations.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    Mike, the AWB was established in 1994 and expired in 2004.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as a "gunshow loophole." It doesn't have to be at a gunshow for these purchases to be made. Private sales are allowed in most states that I know of and in my state, people advertise handguns for sale in the newspaper. All transactions taking placewithout a background check.

    Closing the often-called gunshow loophole will not stop legal, private transactions from taking place outside of an organized show for their sale unless the private sale of firearms is banned completely.

    This would be more feel-good legislation that would accomplish nothing.
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

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    Flintlock wrote:
    Mike, the AWB was established in 1994 and expired in 2004.
    duh. Typo corrected above.

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    From the article:
    "First, face up to where the Mexican cartels get their weapons of death. Virtually all, including pistols, grenades, high-powered ammunition and assault weapons such as the AK-47, are smuggled from U.S. territory, across the border into Mexico, where the gangster elements pay premium prices for them.

    The weapons are often purchased legally at gun shows in Arizona and other states where loopholes permit criminals to buy guns without background checks. Then, corrupted Mexican customs officials wink an eye at the smuggling."

    I don't about any other gun shows, but I've yet to see a guy lugging around a crate of grenades for sale, or a crate of full auto AK's. In fact, I've only seen old dudes carrying .22's, old lever actions, old hunting rifles, etc.
    This author is a tool, plain and simple.

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    Mike wrote:
    Snipped.....
    I don't understand how you can allege that AK-47s can be bought at gun shows without background checks - AK-47s are machine guns - nobody can lawfully deliver one until the buyer obtains a tax stamp from the BATFE. If you mean some other type of gun, that is not a machine gun, you should not use the term AK-47. It's like callingHUMMER a tank.

    ....Snipped
    Actually the AK-47 rifle is not full auto and you can buy many variations of it that are semi-auto.

    Here are a bunch to choose from

    http://atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=2

    You can also buy the full auto version but they go for $15,000 each.

    The AK-47 is like the AR-15 in that you can get both made by various manufacturers and there are the full auto kind out there for each.

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    LEO 229 wrote:
    Actually the AK-47 rifle is not full auto and you can buy many variations of it that are semi-auto.

    Here are a bunch to choose from

    http://atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=2

    You can also buy the full auto version but they go for $15,000 each.

    The AK-47 is like the AR-15 in that you can get both made by various manufacturers and there are the full auto kind out there for each.
    The 'AK' stands for Автомат Калашникова meaning"Automatic rifle Kalashnikov"

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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    The 'AK' stands for Автомат Калашникова meaning"Automatic rifle Kalashnikov"
    That's great Doug!! WOW!!!! Now go tell that to the people making the clones of the AK and make them stop using the same letters.

    They are making AK-47 style rifles and the are NOT automatic.

    But first check this out...

    Hey Doug.... you overlooked a question I had for you..

    http://opencarry.mywowbb.com/view_topic.php?id=11180&forum_id=65&jump_t o=180786#p180786

  10. #10
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    Doug Huffman wrote:
    LEO 229 wrote:
    Actually the AK-47 rifle is not full auto and you can buy many variations of it that are semi-auto.

    Here are a bunch to choose from

    http://atlanticfirearms.com/programming/listview.asp?CatId=2

    You can also buy the full auto version but they go for $15,000 each.

    The AK-47 is like the AR-15 in that you can get both made by various manufacturers and there are the full auto kind out there for each.
    The 'AK' stands for Автомат Калашникова meaning"Automatic rifle Kalashnikov"
    Right. Genuine AK-47 rifles are true assault rifles, i.e. they have selective rates of fire (semi-auto or full-auto). There are a host of clones among the most common being the SKS rifles. These are semi-auto only and are therefore not classified as assault weapons be definition.

    In reality as has been correctly pointed out, the 1994 Assault Weapon Ban had no affect on any, even one, assault weapon. Only semi-automatic rifles were affected by this ban.

    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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  11. #11
    Regular Member Flintlock's Avatar
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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    In reality as has been correctly pointed out, the 1994 Assault Weapon Ban had no affect on any, even one, assault weapon. Only semi-automatic rifles were affected by this ban.
    And just various cosmetic features at that...
    Peace through superior firepower

    Luke 11:21
    "When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed.

  12. #12
    Regular Member Huck's Avatar
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    Flintlock wrote:
    This would be more feel-good legislation that would accomplish nothing.
    That's what every gun control law in this country is, and does.
    "You can teach 'em, but you cant learn 'em."

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    SouthernBoy wrote:
    Right. Genuine AK-47 rifles are true assault rifles, i.e. they have selective rates of fire (semi-auto or full-auto). There are a host of clones among the most common being the SKS rifles.
    The SKS is not a clone of the AK-47. The first SKS rifles were built and used against the Germans as early as 1945. The Kalashnikov rifle wasn't adopted for combat use until 1949.

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