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Thread: Sportman's Warehouse in Provo

  1. #1
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    Okay, so today for Memorial Day we went to the Utah Hogle Zoo (see my post in The Zoo for that information) and then went to see if we could see Indiana Jones IV with the couple we were with. Checked three different movie theaters and they were all sold out. Anyways, we decided that since we were by Provo Towne Center my buddy and I would goto Sportman's Warehouse and the girls were going to Deseret Book. My buddy wants to open-carry (yes, thx, your brother) and we decided to look for a holster for him. Well, didn't find a holster but we were talking to an employee named Matt in the Gun Department at SW. We got on the subject of open-carry in the state of Utah and he told my buddy the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what we've talked about here and what is the law is, that you have to be 21 and no younger to even have a handgun with you in OC long as it was unloaded like my XD was (I was open-carrying). I disagreed with him and told him and told him at 17 you can OC with parental permission. He continued to disagree and basically told me I was wrong. So instead of pulling out ScottyT's pamphlet I decided not to pursue because he was starting to act like a jerk. But I had given my buddy the ScottyT pamphlet and he had read it on the way to the zoo and understands that the guy was pretty wrong. So yeah, a gun seller telling the complete opposite of the law... go figure...

    But just down from Sportman's Warehouse there was Mickey Mouse and I got a picture with him!



    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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  2. #2
    State Researcher Kevin Jensen's Avatar
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    You didn't get the memo? Everyone that works behind a gun counter is a subject matter expert. :P

    This does not surprise me. I can't count the times that I've heard a gun salesman spout off some of this idiocy.
    "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #3
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    Well,gunstore clerks as well as cops "knows" the law because they "work" with it every day:quirky.

    Just remember that a person under the age of 18 CANNOT carry in Public, a handgun.

    Long rifle/"Assault rifle"/Shot gun can be caried either with a Guardian/Parent (Remember it does NOT say LEGAL guardian) or with a permission slip.



    UTAH STATE LEGISLATURE
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    76-10-509. Possession of dangerous weapon by minor.
    (1) A minor under 18 years of age may not possess a dangerous weapon unless he:
    (a) has the permission of his parent or guardian to have the weapon; or
    (b) is accompanied by a parent or guardian while he has the weapon in his possession.
    (2) Any minor under 14 years of age in possession of a dangerous weapon shall be accompanied by a responsible adult.
    (3) Any person who violates this section is guilty of:
    (a) a class B misdemeanor upon the first offense; and
    (b) a class A misdemeanor for each subsequent offense.

    Amended by Chapter 10, 1993 Special Session 2
    Download Code Section Zipped WordPerfect 76_10_050900.ZIP 1,767 Bytes


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    Last revised: Thursday, May 01, 2008


    UTAH STATE LEGISLATURE
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    76-10-509.4. Prohibition of possession of certain weapons by minors.
    (1) A minor under 18 years of age may not possess a handgun.
    (2) Except as provided by federal law, a minor under 18 years of age may not possess the following:
    (a) a sawed-off rifle or sawed-off shotgun; or
    (b) a fully automatic weapon.
    (3) Any person who violates Subsection (1) is guilty of:
    (a) a class B misdemeanor upon the first offense; and
    (b) a class A misdemeanor for each subsequent offense.
    (4) Any person who violates Subsection (2) is guilty of a third degree felony.

    Amended by Chapter 80, 1995 General Session
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    76-10-509.5. Penalties for providing certain weapons to a minor.
    (1) Any person who provides a handgun to a minor when the possession of the handgun by the minor is a violation of Section 76-10-509.4 is guilty of:
    (a) a class B misdemeanor upon the first offense; and
    (b) a class A misdemeanor for each subsequent offense.
    (2) Any person who transfers in violation of applicable state or federal law a sawed-off rifle, sawed-off shotgun, or fully automatic weapon to a minor is guilty of a third degree felony.


    Amended by Chapter 94, 1994 General Session
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    Last revised: Thursday, May 01, 2008


    TJ

  4. #4
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    Okay, I'm confused. You say a minor under 18 may not possess a handgun but the law you stated right after that said one could with parental permission. Please clarify.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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    Outsider wrote:
    Okay, I'm confused. You say a minor under 18 may not possess a handgun but the law you stated right after that said one could with parental permission. Please clarify.
    TJ quoted two sections of the law. The first says that minors can't posses a "dangerous weapon" except with parental permission. The second says that minors can't possess a handgun. Period. The parental exception isn't in 76-10-509.4.

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    Ah, okay. I missed that. I thought a minor under 17 could. I mis-read and didn't quite understand that second code listed. Thanks.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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    Outsider wrote:
    Ah, okay. I missed that. I thought a minor under 17 could. I mis-read and didn't quite understand that second code listed. Thanks.
    I did the same thing the first time I read those statutes

    I still wonder exactly what 'possession' means. Depending on how you define it, my kids 'possess' a handgun from time to time. I'm supposing that when we're out shooting and I load the gun up, hand it to them, let them blast some pop cans with it, and then get it back that because I'm in control of the whole process, I'm still "possessing" the guns, not them.

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    Interesting. I've started my own little campaign against "know-it-alls" like people at Sportman's that think they know the law. Send a little letter to them with some other information. Waiting for ScottyT to get back to me about the use of his pamphlet.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
    Lone Eagle Observer (http://www.charlesahall.us)
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  9. #9
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    i think its fun that people think they know the law, when theyre actually mumbling fools, like the ones at gun shops hahahaha



  10. #10
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I had a similar experience at Gunnie's in Orem. I have already started assuming that you mean my brother anytime you are talking about OC and your buddy. I'm glad that he got a decent understanding from that pamphlet. That's something about the guys behind the gun counters, they will not be persuaded that they are wrong. They are usually older then me, so they like to think that because I am young I'm stupid. Simply not something that can be applied in every case.

    Oh, don't tell me you didn't speak with a manager at least about his customer service skills. I always speak to a manager when confronted with those sort of situations.

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    Outsider wrote:
    Interesting. I've started my own little campaign against "know-it-alls" like people at Sportman's that think they know the law. Send a little letter to them with some other information. Waiting for ScottyT to get back to me about the use of his pamphlet.
    Did you send me a PM about this over at UCC? I know I have messages, but I can't see them here at work.

    You can use my pamphlet for whatever purposes you like, short of selling them. Spread the word!

  12. #12
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    ScottyT wrote:
    Outsider wrote:
    Interesting. I've started my own little campaign against "know-it-alls" like people at Sportman's that think they know the law. Send a little letter to them with some other information. Waiting for ScottyT to get back to me about the use of his pamphlet.
    Did you send me a PM about this over at UCC? I know I have messages, but I can't see them here at work.

    You can use my pamphlet for whatever purposes you like, short of selling them. Spread the word!
    You should have two messages from me at UCC: 1) your Voice Recorders from UCC Classifieds and 2) the pamphlets.

    Thanks on permission to use the pamphlets, I have some "plans" for them, all legal and good intended nature.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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    thx997303 wrote:
    I had a similar experience at Gunnie's in Orem. I have already started assuming that you mean my brother anytime you are talking about OC and your buddy. I'm glad that he got a decent understanding from that pamphlet. That's something about the guys behind the gun counters, they will not be persuaded that they are wrong. They are usually older then me, so they like to think that because I am young I'm stupid. Simply not something that can be applied in every case.

    Oh, don't tell me you didn't speak with a manager at least about his customer service skills. I always speak to a manager when confronted with those sort of situations.
    Nah, I just told your brother "he's an idiot and completely wrong" as we walked away. I don't think he heard me or anything.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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  14. #14
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    I would give the manager a call today. Nobody should ever treat customers like that. .

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    I found the manager's e-mail address on their website and just sent him an e-mail, but I'll follow up with a letter as well.


    EDIT:
    This is the reply I got from Sportman's Manger:

    Mr. Hall,
    I appreciate you taking the time to give us some feedback. Sorry that Matt gave you a hard time on the subject you described below. Believe it or not, that was actually his first day on the job! Not a very good first day. I’ve shared your email with my Manager of the Hunting Dept. and we will share it with Matt, not to get him in trouble, but simply to use as a training tool. I appreciate your research and sharing the web sites with us. Let me know if I can ever help you with anything.

    Eric Livingston
    Store Manager
    Sportsman's Warehouse

    Provo, UT

    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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  16. #16
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Well that was somewhat kinda uhhh......... at least they will train him.

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    Yeah, as you said it was something. Better if I got like a $100 gift card or something but oh well.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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  18. #18
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'll agree with that.

  19. #19
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    I'm trying to do follow-ups with all places I've sent letters and e-mail to regarding open carry and I sent this to Sportman's Warehouse in Provo:


    Hello Eric. I’m doing a follow-up on places I’ve reported about employees of a company and about gun-owners carrying firearms. I was wondering how your talk with Matt went and the training you may have (I hope) provided on the subject discussed. A follow-up reply would most grateful.

    Respectfully,
    Charles Anthony Hall, "Tony"
    http://www.charlesahall.com

    Then I go this reply today from the Manager:


    Mr. Hall,
    I was able to talk to my Hunting Dept. Managers about the issue and they in turn did some additional research and have talked to everyone working in the Hunting Dept. to help make sure we are all on the same page. There was also recently an article in the paper on the same issue and we laminated a copy to keep on the gun counter and asked all the people working down there to read it and be familiar with it.
    Thanks,
    Eric Livingston
    Sportsman's Warehouse
    Provo, UT

    I think that is progress! NICE! Now we need to get Gunnies on the same page.



    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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  20. #20
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    Great... they're using the newspaper to teach their employees the laws? :shock:

    Perhaps we should sent over some of our pamplets for them to laminate and display :celebrate

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    I did think the same thing actually, Dave. I'll make a trip down there to read the newspaper article and drop off the Utah Gun Law pamphlet.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
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  22. #22
    Regular Member thx997303's Avatar
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    Maybe it's one of the good recent articles.

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    I'm thinking it was something from the WVC CC meeting. But even though theyhave a newspaper they have researched and informed their employees of the correct law. Even without the newspaper that is progress.
    Charles A. Hall, self-proclaimed Lone Eagle || Carry: Kahr CW40
    Lone Eagle Observer (http://www.charlesahall.us)
    Facebook Page || http://twitter.com/CharlesAHall

  24. #24
    Calebs
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    Hi UTOC-45-44,
    New in this forum and found this threat.
    Thanks for briefing in details the law of Utah city here. it would be of great help for me as we are planning to shift to Utah city by the end of this year.
    I have bookmarked Utah state legislature link and will look it thoroughly for guidance.

  25. #25
    Brentes
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    Hello Outsider,
    Finally after a hectic and stressful day you have managed to took picture with Micky mouse. Do share the picture with everyone.
    Curious why gun seller gave false statement.

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