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Thread: Private Business = Private Residance??

  1. #1
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    Hey guys, I'm new to the board and new to the open carry concept. I see if I refer to 76-10-530, it makes mention that anyone in a private residence or church can ask you to leave at anytime.

    What I DONT see, is where you can take a firearm into a private business (Open Carry) that has a sign saying you CAN NOT take it in, and be within the law of open carry until someone from the establishment asks you to leave.


    Any help on this would be appreciated (please site a specific law number and where to find it).

  2. #2
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    You are opening a can of worms for as many different interpretations and opinions as there are people. You make a good observation that people tend to ignore and pooh-pooh as being irrelevant but what is a private business. For example a person working out of their home or having a storefront and living in the back. How about a Lawyers office. I wouldn't call it open to the public exactly like a Wal-Mart but is.

    I think the general opinion and there is no real law stating otherwise in most states that signs mean nothing and you have to be told to leave for them to be effective. That is what you are asking and whether this is the way it works in Utah or not I don't know. It varies all over the place and in most cases is actually just opinions.

    I know this hasn't answered your question but I really don't think you are going to find an answer to what you are asking.

    In SC if a business is properly posted and you carry anyway the store owner does not have to ask you to leave butcan just call the police and have you carted away to jail. If it is not properly posted and he asks you to leave I really don't know if you can refuse or not. The law doesn't exactly cover that.

  3. #3
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    xRapidDavex wrote:
    Hey guys, I'm new to the board and new to the open carry concept. I see if I refer to 76-10-530, it makes mention that anyone in a private residence or church can ask you to leave at anytime.

    What I DONT see, is where you can take a firearm into a private business (Open Carry) that has a sign saying you CAN NOT take it in, and be within the law of open carry until someone from the establishment asks you to leave.

    Any help on this would be appreciated (please site a specific law number and where to find it).
    OCing into a private business is not illegal, under any statute. The only question is whether it is trespassing to enter after having observed the "No Guns" sign, or whether you have to be asked to leave. The relevant statute is 76-6-206, and it says that you're guilty of criminal trespass if you enter or remain on property where notice is given by:

    (i) personal communication to the actor by the owner or someone with apparent authority to act for the owner;
    (ii) fencing or other enclosure obviously designed to exclude intruders; or
    (iii) posting of signs reasonably likely to come to the attention of intruders

    If the sign is reasonably likely to come to your attention, I think the owner could make a case that you trespassed by entering.

    In practice, I've never heard of any property owner taking this approach. Also, the statute offers some defenses:

    (4) It is a defense to prosecution under this section that:
    (a) the property was open to the public when the actor entered or remained; and
    (b) the actor's conduct did not substantially interfere with the owner's use of the property.

    Since the business was open, the only question is if your carrying in violation of the sign "substantially interferes" with the owner's business. Unless your presence prompts paying customers to leave, that seems unlikely.

    Also, these defenses seem to offer very strong protection against legal CC. Since the gun is concealed, there's no way its presence could interfere.

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