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Thread: CCing without a permit

  1. #1
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    OK, I went through the NC gun laws and have a question. I know somewhere in there it states I cannot bring guns on property if the owner/lessee prohibits firearms. My point is this. I do not have a CHP, but if the pastor of my church, who is the lessee of the church building, says I can CC, is it OK to do so, even without a CHP? Let me give you some back story.

    I decided to OC at church. Everything was fine, out of the 55 or so people that were there about four approached me about the gun. All of them thought it was great I was carrying. One person even went as far to say that she felt safer knowing I had a firearm.

    That evening I showed up again to church with my Glock 19 9mm and after a few minutes of mingling around with friends the pastor pulled me aside and told me to put the gun away before service starts. In his defense, I know he doesn’t care if I carry or not, in fact I’m sure he thought it was good that I was carrying. However, I’m almost positive some person came up to him and complained about how “guns don’t belong in church” and “he doesn’t need that he’ll scare the kids” and all the crap. I don’t blame him for telling me to put it away. Here’s where my question comes in.

    What if I CC in church and he says it’s OK to do so? I have permission from the lessee, so do I still need a CHP? I hope the answer is no, but either way; I need a source and a reference as well as your answer.

    I thank you all for reading this and answering my questions. I wouldn’t dare ask this to a LEO.

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    Try this on for size:
    http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/qselfdefense.html

    Prior to His crucifixion, Jesus revealed to His disciples the future hostility they would face and encouraged them to sell their outer garments in order to buy a sword (Luke 22:36-38; cf. 2 Corinthians 11:26-27). Here the "sword" (Greek: maxairan) is a dagger or short sword that belonged to the Jewish traveler's equipment as protection against robbers and wild animals. A plain reading of the passage indicates that Jesus approved of self-defense.
    Self-defense may actually result in one of the greatest examples of human love. Christ Himself said, "Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends" (John 15:14). When protecting one's family or neighbor, a Christian is unselfishly risking his or her life for the sake of others.

    Now, as for asking street LEO, they are risk-averse by nature & pretty much have been elevated by laws & the liberal agenda to a privileged warrior class or a samurai. They don't want you armed because it threatens them. How much law enforcement (or how many agencies) would you need if all moral, honest, law-abiding citizens carried & common sense legislation enacted? I can tell you this, not as much as is currently in service. Police departments, federal agencies, special/company police, limited jurisdiction agencies (like North Carolina State Highway Patrol which can only give tickets & have control over state & federal highways inside NC but are not really cops, or the DEA [if self-abuse was made into a freedom, oh wait, it is if you like alcohol & cigarettes]. We'd be down to just Sheriff's department, state Departments of Correction, the U.S. Marshals Service, & the Bureau of Prisons (maybe a State police, maybe). However, this is not the case & probably will never be.

    Thus, the armed citizen is a threat to the job of law enforcement, they like their privileged status & don't want to be downgraded to just picking up the pieces after the action is all over, they like controlling situations. To a lesser degree in Corrections, taking control of situations is the rule of law. So imagine what it is out there on the street?

    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

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    That was pretty cool, I enjoyed reading that. But I don't see how that answered my question.

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    IANAL and I haven't really spent the time looking through the legalese of our NC laws.

    That said, I've been a CHL holder for years and have spent many an hour in firearms classes, and in my opinion, I don't see how the law would apply to you at all if you're on private property and have permission by the owner/leasee.

    Now if the true owner came around and said it wasn't kosher, than you'd probably have to adjust your thinking, but I can't see any reason why that restriction on our liberties would apply in that case.

    I guess it would be similar to if you were riding a bicycle on private property and the owner said you didn't need a helmet....hmmm...

    Now I"m curious.




  5. #5
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    Godscreation wrote:
    That was pretty cool, I enjoyed reading that. But I don't see how that answered my question.
    I did. In my own way. The first part of my post shows biblical proof that Christ was a self-defense advocate. This makes me wonder why a pastor/minister/priest/reverend of a church wants you to put your weapon away? Why did he not console his flock that you are simply fulfilling your duty by possessing the tools necessary to traverse the roads of this land?

    The second part is much like the only rule of Fight Club, and that rule is :You never ask a cop for advice, you NEVER ask a cop for advice.

    Now legally, you always need a CHP, unless you have the words in writing, notarized, with a dozen witnesses, and still IT IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY. Do not forget that, since that is the only place you are allowed to conceal in North Carolina WITHOUT a permit. I'll get back to you on statute, as I am tired tonight, worked OT.
    Subsisto tutus. Subsisto secundus emendatio.

    Tyrants come in all shapes and sizes, as do those who do their bidding. Anyone who tells you that the threat of tyranny is long over, is either a fool, an enemy, or BOTH.

  6. #6
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    Custodian wrote:
    Godscreation wrote:
    That was pretty cool, I enjoyed reading that. But I don't see how that answered my question.
    Now legally, you always need a CHP, unless you have the words in writing, notarized, with a dozen witnesses, and still IT IS NOT YOUR PROPERTY. Do not forget that, since that is the only place you are allowed to conceal in North Carolina WITHOUT a permit. I'll get back to you on statute, as I am tired tonight, worked OT.
    I stand corrected! Thanks for the enlightenment and nice first post.

    Keith

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