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Almost Died Tonight

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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I came back from Colorado (Denver) on a vacation to visit friends of mine down there. Because of a recent change (2007) in Colorado law, I had no guarantee that I wouldn't run afoul of some stupid ass local city ordinance or being accused of concealed carrying (as non-resident licenses were no longer valid, and WA/CO has no reciprocity agreement), so I went without my personal firearm. I'll get to the depth of my anger at that situation later.

One of my friends flaked on picking me up from the airport (as I didn't want to pay over $100 for parking near it for 5 days), so I had to call my partner up and tell him about the situation. Luckily, his manager heard about what happened and she offered to pick me up.

Fast forward to around 11:30PM (about 4 hours ago). I get picked up by the manager and her husband. Her husband was driving. Nice people. So we're going north on I-5. We started noticing a car weaving through the lanes. Granted, I'm not the type to stool pidgeon, but the car was swerving to the point where the car was endangering other people's lives. So I got the license plate and called 911. Approximately 1 to 2 minutes later was when the shit really hit the fan.

Basically the "drunk driver" started "targeting" us. Either it was a random target, or might have seen my cell phone's screen light up to call her in. Basically came really close to the S-10 Blazer I was riding in (I was backseat passenger) and then SLAMMED into the drivers side of the car I was riding. The drunk driver did this FOUR times total, and chased us for 5 miles. The driver in the car I was riding in, thank the gods, was a former race car driver and had delt with similar stuff and knew exactly what to do to keep us from having a rollover accident (which almost happened) I was on the phone with 911 the entire time, and to be perfectly

They caught the drunk driver in Mountlake Terrace and we had also stopped there there. My driver did follow the drunk/road rage car (I didn't want him to do that because I felt like if the driver is willing to slam into us 4 times, the driver would be willing to continue the assaults further and possibly take it to a higher level, ie start shooting at us). We then saw the drunk/road rage driver crash their car into a garbage can and a PUD Power Transformer (Public Utility District up here in Snohomish County), when we saw this we turned around and headed into a cul-du-sac, waiting for the cops.

The cops did catch the driver. 21 years old, drunk and high as a kite, saying "She didn't do it", suspended license and due to that, possibly no insurance. The S-10 is totaled (though drivable). The drunk driver also clipped another vehicle on I-5 (a Mercedes). They pretty much laundry listed the charges, D.U.I, driving on a suspended license, attempted vehicular homicide x3, hit and run, reckless endangerment, etc etc etc.

A few points:

When you're a passenger, not in control of the car, and you start having someone start hitting the car you're riding in with your own, you WILL panic, and you will scream like a little girl. There's no ifs ands or buts about it. I honestly felt like the bitch was trying to KILL us all in the Blazer.

I would have been within my rights to use deadly force to stop the vehicular attack, except one thing, read the first paragraph.
 

sv_libertarian

State Researcher
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
3,201
Location
Olympia, WA, ,
imported post

Holy Cow! Glad you are still here with us...

Didn't realize the Colorado changes in law since it has been years since I was there. So Denver pushed crap through to make sure they have their own way eh...

Dang, dang, dang that was close.... :what:
 

OC-Glock19

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2006
Messages
559
Location
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
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Holy crap, Lonnie. :what:Glad you're still with us to tell us about this. (And I agree with you 100% on the monumental stupidity of the Colorado Legislature. )
 

Liko81

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2007
Messages
496
Location
Dallas, TX, ,
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sv_libertarian wrote:
Holy Cow! Glad you are still here with us...

Didn't realize the Colorado changes in law since it has been years since I was there. So Denver pushed crap through to make sure they have their own way eh...

Dang, dang, dang that was close.... :what:
Basically, Denver sued the State for an injunction to bar the enforcement of the pre-emption law, and won. So, Denver can draw its own firearms law. The rest of the state except for the CUcampus honors state pre-emption.
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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Even after the court decision in 06 I could have still concealed carry in Denver on my Florida license until the Colorado legislature changed their law. What's funny is that I actually emailed the Senator who introduced the bill and told him that it would have personally effected me. The reason he told me was to prevent Colorado residents from "bypassing" the state law by getting an out of state license. I told him that Washington wrote it's reciprocity law so that Washington residents are required to get an in state license, but it didn't effect non-residents who may be adversely effected.

It didn't work, and now, it almost got me killed.
 

IanB

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2006
Messages
1,896
Location
Northern VA
imported post

Lonnie,

Sorry to hear about your experience,I'm glad you and the other two made it out in one piece.

NSL
 

Jim675

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Messages
1,023
Location
Bellevue, Washington, USA
imported post

WOW! That's more excitement than I get per month! Glad everyone's OK.
launch.png
 

t3rmin

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 27, 2008
Messages
302
Location
USA
imported post

My goodness. Glad you're OK.

Obviously you would have been justified to shoot.

But I wonder if you'd have had a tougher time with the law? They might get it in their heads you were living out some kind of movie scene rolling gunfight fantasy. Obviously that wasn't the case, but I wonder if circumstances like that would be harder for the victim who had to use deadly force. Just thinking out loud.
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
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Lonnie Wilson wrote:
When you're a passenger, not in control of the car, and you start having someone start hitting the car you're riding in with your own, you WILL panic, and you will scream like a little girl. There's no ifs ands or buts about it.

So very, very true and the main reason I really hate to ride with others. I know my capabilities and know they are several steps up from most.

As to Colorado, the place has become over run with Liberal morons that don't have enough sense to make it so they can save their own lives or those oftheir loved ones. My brother lives there and whines about it every time I talk to him. He can't wait to retire and run for the freakdom as he calls it.
 

kenshin

Regular Member
Joined
May 15, 2008
Messages
285
Location
Gig Harbor, Washington, USA
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Wow, that is indeed a scary situation. Glad you made it out OK.

I've never had occasion to travel to Colorado so I did not know until now how :cuss: up there laws are. Why should a city law ever trump state laws? Completely asinine. :banghead:
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
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Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
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kenshin wrote:
Wow, that is indeed a scary situation. Glad you made it out OK.

I've never had occasion to travel to Colorado so I did not know until now how :cuss: up there laws are. Why should a city law ever trump state laws? Completely asinine. :banghead:
Colorado is turning into the Kalifornia of the Rockies.
 

UTOC-45-44

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2007
Messages
2,579
Location
Morgan, Utah, USA
imported post

Bear 45/70 wrote:
kenshin wrote:
Wow, that is indeed a scary situation. Glad you made it out OK.

I've never had occasion to travel to Colorado so I did not know until now how :cuss: up there laws are. Why should a city law ever trump state laws? Completely asinine. :banghead:
Colorado is turning into the Kalifornia of the Rockies.


This is the Colorado Reciprocity list,

http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/reciprocity.asp

Pursuant to Colorado law (CRS 18-12-213), the State of Colorado will recognize a valid permit issued in another state IF the permit was issued to a resident of the state issuing the permit, and the permittee is 21 yrs of age or older, AND the other state recognizes Colorado permits as valid in their state. Hence, a "yes" in the following table also indicates that a valid Colorado permit is recognized in that state, subject to their laws. When traveling with a Colorado permit, it is advisable to contact the state you are visiting to confirm reciprocity and to review that state's firearms laws.

The state of Colorado no longer recognizes the validity of any permit issued by any state to a nonresident of that state (see CRS 18-12-213 amended 2007).

This information is also available to Colorado law enforcement through the CCIC.











STATE
PERMIT VALID IN COLORADO

ALABAMA
YES

ALASKA
YES

ARIZONA
YES

ARKANSAS
YES

CALIFORNIA
NO

CONNECTICUT
NO

DELAWARE
YES

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA
NO

FLORIDA
YES

GEORGIA
YES

HAWAII
NO

IDAHO
YES

ILLINOIS
NO

INDIANA
YES

IOWA
NO

KANSAS
YES

KENTUCKY
YES

LOUISIANA
YES

MAINE
NO

MARYLAND
NO

MASSACHUSETTS
NO

MICHIGAN
YES

MINNESOTA
NO

MISSISSIPPI
YES

MISSOURI
YES
*No permit required in State of Vermont to carry a concealed weapon.





STATE
PERMIT VALID IN COLORADO

MONTANA
YES

NEBRASKA
NO

NEVADA
NO

NEW HAMPSHIRE
YES

NEW JERSEY
NO

NEW MEXICO
YES

NEW YORK
NO

NORTH CAROLINA
YES

NORTH DAKOTA
YES

OHIO
NO

OKLAHOMA
YES

OREGON
NO

PENNSYLVANIA
YES

RHODE ISLAND
NO

SOUTH CAROLINA
NO

SOUTH DAKOTA
YES

TENNESSEE
YES

TEXAS
YES

UTAH
YES

*VERMONT
NO

VIRGINIA
NO

WASHINGTON
NO

WEST VIRGINIA
NO

WISCONSIN
NO

WYOMING
YES




I'm so sorry for this VERY scary experience. If a State will NOT recognize my permit...simple...I will NOT go the under any circumstances.

TJ
 

Gray Peterson

Founder's Club Member - Moderator
Joined
May 12, 2006
Messages
2,236
Location
Lynnwood, Washington, USA
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Would I have been justified? I had two witnesses inside of the vehicle who could testify to the drunk driver hitting us multiple times trying to chase us and kill us. *sigh* Besides it's a moot point now.
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
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Why must each state pick and choose who's permits the recognize? Federal law say the states are suppose to recognize each other state's permits and licenses as is done with drivers licenses. So why are CPLs singled out for exemption for a the Federal law that doesn't say they are not covered by that law?
 

Bear 45/70

Regular Member
Joined
May 22, 2007
Messages
3,256
Location
Union, Washington, USA
imported post

UTOC-45-44 wrote:
I'm so sorry for this VERY scary experience. If a State will NOT recognize my permit...simple...I will NOT go the under any circumstances.

TJ
I pass also on states that don't recognize my 2A rights.
 

asforme

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Mar 27, 2008
Messages
839
Location
Kalamazoo, MI
imported post

UTOC-45-44 wrote:
This is the Colorado Reciprocity list,

http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/reciprocity.asp

Pursuant to Colorado law (CRS 18-12-213), the State of Colorado will recognize a valid permit issued in another state IF the permit was issued to a resident of the state issuing the permit, and the permittee is 21 yrs of age or older, AND the other state recognizes Colorado permits as valid in their state. Hence, a "yes" in the following table also indicates that a valid Colorado permit is recognized in that state, subject to their laws. When traveling with a Colorado permit, it is advisable to contact the state you are visiting to confirm reciprocity and to review that state's firearms laws.

The state of Colorado no longer recognizes the validity of any permit issued by any state to a nonresident of that state (see CRS 18-12-213 amended 2007).

This information is also available to Colorado law enforcement through the CCIC.











STATE
PERMIT VALID IN COLORADO

ALABAMA
YES

ALASKA
YES

[snip]
How do they go about recognizing a permit from Alaska? I thought Alaska was one of only two states that fully recognize the second amendment.
 

grishnav

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
736
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
imported post

Liko81 wrote:
sv_libertarian wrote:
Holy Cow! Glad you are still here with us...

Didn't realize the Colorado changes in law since it has been years since I was there. So Denver pushed crap through to make sure they have their own way eh...

Dang, dang, dang that was close.... :what:
Basically, Denver sued the State for an injunction to bar the enforcement of the pre-emption law, and won. So, Denver can draw its own firearms law. The rest of the state except for the CUcampus honors state pre-emption.

Can anyone point me to the decision? I'm really curious to read about this. What was the logic behind the decision? Was there something in Denver's Article's of Incorporation that allowed it to trump state law?
 

grishnav

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
736
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
imported post

asforme wrote:
UTOC-45-44 wrote:
This is the Colorado Reciprocity list,

http://cbi.state.co.us/ccw/reciprocity.asp

Pursuant to Colorado law (CRS 18-12-213), the State of Colorado will recognize a valid permit issued in another state IF the permit was issued to a resident of the state issuing the permit, and the permittee is 21 yrs of age or older, AND the other state recognizes Colorado permits as valid in their state. Hence, a "yes" in the following table also indicates that a valid Colorado permit is recognized in that state, subject to their laws. When traveling with a Colorado permit, it is advisable to contact the state you are visiting to confirm reciprocity and to review that state's firearms laws.

The state of Colorado no longer recognizes the validity of any permit issued by any state to a nonresident of that state (see CRS 18-12-213 amended 2007).

This information is also available to Colorado law enforcement through the CCIC.











STATE
PERMIT VALID IN COLORADO

ALABAMA
YES

ALASKA
YES

[snip]
How do they go about recognizing a permit from Alaska? I thought Alaska was one of only two states that fully recognize the second amendment.

Alaska issues permits for the sole purpose of giving people access to reciprocity. It's not required to carry.

IIRC, Alaska doesn't fully recognize 2A either, as there are restrictions on place, but it's a lot better than most states!
 
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