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Thread: Tired Of Storing My Weapon

  1. #1
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    Every day at lunch it’s the same old thing. I have to close my office door, very carefully remove my gun from the most secure place. My ISWB holster. Lock it up and go to lunch. I kind of feel naked without my baby. SW 699 9mm.
    Well today I have decided that I will try to open carry. I have the ok from the bar owner, he’s cool with it. I plan to sit at the bar and enjoy a cool refreshing beverage. “ICE TEA” and a burger.
    The bar is in Warren Michigan. Is there anybody who thinks this might be a bad idea? Any comments from any body.

  2. #2
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    wrcken2 wrote:
    Every day at lunch it’s the same old thing. I have to close my office door, very carefully remove my gun from the most secure place. My ISWB holster. Lock it up and go to lunch. I kind of feel naked without my baby. SW 699 9mm.
    Well today I have decided that I will try to open carry. I have the ok from the bar owner, he’s cool with it. I plan to sit at the bar and enjoy a cool refreshing beverage. “ICE TEA” and a burger.
    The bar is in Warren Michigan. Is there anybody who thinks this might be a bad idea? Any comments from any body.
    750.234d Possession of firearm on certain premises prohibited; applicability; violation as misdemeanor; penalty.


    Sec. 234d.

    (1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    (a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

    (b) A church or other house of religious worship.

    (c) A court.

    (d) A theatre.

    (e) A sports arena.

    (f) A day care center.

    (g) A hospital.

    (h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.

    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

    (3) A person who violates this section is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 90 days or a fine of not more than $100.00, or both.


    History: Add. 1990, Act 321, Eff. Mar. 28, 1991 ;-- Am. 1992, Act 218, Imd. Eff. Oct. 13, 1992 ;-- Am. 1994, Act 158, Eff. Aug. 15, 1994


    © 2007 Legislative Council, State of Michigan

    NOTE: Even if you have a CPL, you must Open Carry in the establishment, due to MCL 28.425o.

    Please review the Michigan Archives (28.425o) for futher details of where you may OC or CC.

    And, welcome to OCDO.


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    wrcken2 wrote:
    Every day at lunch it’s the same old thing. I have to close my office door, very carefully remove my gun from the most secure place. My ISWB holster. Lock it up and go to lunch. I kind of feel naked without my baby. SW 699 9mm.
    Well today I have decided that I will try to open carry. I have the ok from the bar owner, he’s cool with it. I plan to sit at the bar and enjoy a cool refreshing beverage. “ICE TEA” and a burger.
    The bar is in Warren Michigan. Is there anybody who thinks this might be a bad idea? Any comments from any body.
    This is on private property and is between you and the owner. The only problem you could have is from the owner asking you to cover it or leave (trespassing) since you havehis permission GO FORIT!PERFECTLY LEGAL. The question I have is, is your boss willing to let others open carry and if so where is his bar? We would love to have a get together there some time, spend money on food and soft drinks.

    Have fun, the more you open carry the more comfortable you will be with it. Kinda like when you first concealed, you know that weired feeling you had of freedom.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.



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    Just as a suggestion. Although you know this feller, ask if you can get the permission in a form of a letter. Sure you have a permit by it's ALWAYS good to cover yourself if somebody calls the PD. Then you can show BOTH permit AND permission slip/letter.

    Better safe than sorry.

    Just my .40

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    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.


    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.


    Edit to add:

    Per Wiki:

    Agent can mean:

    • Agent (law): a person authorised to act on behalf of another person

  7. #7
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    So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:

    Places Off Limits
    • None


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    asforme wrote:
    So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:

    Places Off Limits
    • None
    Where is this posted, provide link??? This is not true as private property is under control of the owner and they can ban weapons.

    Ahhh found it We have no control over that page, as I look at it I see other mistakes as well. I'll PM John.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    Unless of course the bar makes more money from food sales. With a CPL you could not conceal carry if the place sold only alcohol, but could OC, with permission from the owner or theirdesignee.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  10. #10
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.

  11. #11
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    asforme wrote:
    So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:

    Places Off Limits
    • None
    This thread is about wrcken who is a boss, not an owner ofa bar where he works, where he-with permission from the owner(s) of said bar and even a CPL-must OC per MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Unless, the bars primary source of income is from food. Only the owner(s) of a business may CC without CPL.

    Establishments (Bars) whose primary source of income is from food (= or > 51%), CC is allowed if you have a CPL, unless they are posted, but we all know how that goes.:quirky

    As far as, "Places Off Limits", I too would like an update. However, I think it would be extremely difficult due to the requirements to OC or CC. Meaning, the places off limits to CC and also the places off limits to OC, with CPL and also the places off limits to CC and places off limits to OC, without CPL.

    Edit to add:

    I stand corrected, per Wiki:

    Agent can mean:

    • Agent (law): a person authorised to act on behalf of another person

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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:

    Places Off Limits
    • None
    This thread is about wrcken who is a boss, not an owner ofa bar where he works, where he-with permission from the owner(s) of said bar and even a CPL-must OC per MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Unless, the bars primary source of income is from food. Only the owner(s) of a business may CC without CPL.

    Establishments (Bars) whose primary source of income is from food (= or > 51%), CC is allowed if you have a CPL, unless they are posted, but we all know how that goes.:quirky

    As far as, "Places Off Limits", I too would like an update. However, I think it would be extremely difficult due to the requirements to OC or CC. Meaning, the places off limits to CC and also the places off limits to OC, with CPL and also the places off limits to CC and places off limits to OC, without CPL.
    I think the whole state sections may need a revamp. They have none under Virginia too, but we cannot OC in state parks, but can CC. Conversely we cannot CC anywhere that sells alcohol for on site consumption, but we can OC. Is there a good place to find out this information for Michigan? We have the VCDL in Virginia, but my parents live in Michigan so I will be visiting there frequently, and carrying once I have my VA CHP.

    Also how do you know where the business gets most of it's income? Can it be assumed that most family dining gets its income from food? Places like Applebees ect...

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    asforme wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:

    Places Off Limits
    • None
    This thread is about wrcken who is a boss, not an owner ofa bar where he works, where he-with permission from the owner(s) of said bar and even a CPL-must OC per MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Unless, the bars primary source of income is from food. Only the owner(s) of a business may CC without CPL.

    Establishments (Bars) whose primary source of income is from food (= or > 51%), CC is allowed if you have a CPL, unless they are posted, but we all know how that goes.:quirky

    As far as, "Places Off Limits", I too would like an update. However, I think it would be extremely difficult due to the requirements to OC or CC. Meaning, the places off limits to CC and also the places off limits to OC, with CPL and also the places off limits to CC and places off limits to OC, without CPL.
    I think the whole state sections may need a revamp. They have none under Virginia too, but we cannot OC in state parks, but can CC. Conversely we cannot CC anywhere that sells alcohol for on site consumption, but we can OC. Is there a good place to find out this information for Michigan? We have the VCDL in Virginia, but my parents live in Michigan so I will be visiting there frequently, and carrying once I have my VA CHP.

    Also how do you know where the business gets most of it's income? Can it be assumed that most family dining gets its income from food? Places like Applebees ect...
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USOffLimitsA-M.pdf

    http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_ccwfaq.asp

    http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7...654---,00.html

    I remember reading somewhere when a LEO was asked that question, he said "...you know a bar when you see it..." A bar, meaning its primary source of income is from alcohol.

    In Michigan, CC with a CPL, I would not at all be concerned with establishments like Applebees/Olive Gardens/etc. They may be posted and I suspect that the only negative issues would be if you're OC, if any.

  14. #14
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    asforme wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:

    Places Off Limits
    • None
    This thread is about wrcken who is a boss, not an owner ofa bar where he works, where he-with permission from the owner(s) of said bar and even a CPL-must OC per MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Unless, the bars primary source of income is from food. Only the owner(s) of a business may CC without CPL.

    Establishments (Bars) whose primary source of income is from food (= or > 51%), CC is allowed if you have a CPL, unless they are posted, but we all know how that goes.:quirky

    As far as, "Places Off Limits", I too would like an update. However, I think it would be extremely difficult due to the requirements to OC or CC. Meaning, the places off limits to CC and also the places off limits to OC, with CPL and also the places off limits to CC and places off limits to OC, without CPL.
    I think the whole state sections may need a revamp. They have none under Virginia too, but we cannot OC in state parks, but can CC. Conversely we cannot CC anywhere that sells alcohol for on site consumption, but we can OC. Is there a good place to find out this information for Michigan? We have the VCDL in Virginia, but my parents live in Michigan so I will be visiting there frequently, and carrying once I have my VA CHP.

    Also how do you know where the business gets most of it's income? Can it be assumed that most family dining gets its income from food? Places like Applebees ect...
    Welcome to Michigan. Below is some infor that may help. Michigan didn't want to burden the bar owners with having them post the 51% signs so they left it open. Generally if the place is a restaurant that also has alcohol sales you would be fine. If the place is mostly a bar that sells a few burgers but mostly booze, then most likely you could not carry there concealed but with a CPL it has been opined (below) that you could carry openly. But all these places are private property and they can ask you to leave or face trespassing charges. With your Virgina permit I suggest you carry under both the requirements of yours and Michigan's to be safe. Most likely you would be okay to carry concealed in a restaurant that sold booze with your permit. But I'm not a lawyer.

    Places off limits to concealed carry.

    [size=a) A school or school property…unless dropping of or picking up kids.]

    [size=b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.]

    [size=c) A sports arena or stadium.]

    [size=d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the][size=Michigan][size= liquor control code of 1998…This subdivision][size=shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.]

    [size=e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple or other place of worship, unless]

    [size=the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of]

    [size=concealed pistol on that property or facility.]

    [size=f) An entertainment facility [that has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more].]

    [size=g) A hospital.]

    [size=h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university. [Emphasis added.]]

    Opinions on open carry in these zones with a CPL.
    4) [/b]Three opinions on this topic. An AG’s opinion, the Michigan State Police, and a State Senator’s.[/b]

    AG opinion No. 7097 [/b]FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN January 11, 2002: This conclusion is not affected by the provisions of section 234d of the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. That statute prohibits certain persons from possessing firearms on certain types of premises as follows: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:

    a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
    b) A church or other house of religious worship.
    c) A court.
    d) A theatre.
    e) A sports arena.
    f) A day care center.
    g) A hospital.
    h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.
    (2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
    a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
    b) A peace officer.
    c) [/b]A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon[/b].[/b]
    d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. [Emphasis added.]
    By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol,… is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.[/b]


    MSP opinion:[/b] Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones. Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd. East Lansing, MI 48823
    (517) 336-6441

    Senator Prusi’s opinion:[/b] My office received your inquiry regarding the legality of a licensed CPL holder to open carry a firearm in "Pistol Free Zones." On Friday we received a copy of your correspondence, as Senator Carl Levin's Office referred your letter to my office because your concerns mainly pertain to state issues. As such, I am happy to assist you in this matter.

    My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are licensed a CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter….Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"

    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  15. #15
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    "agent" I did not take as simply an employee who was/is appointed as a boss.

    My understanding-and apparently wrong-of an "agent" was someone who was given power of attorney or durable power of attorney of a person/business.

    Sorry, I must be wrong. Where do I send the check.

  16. #16
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    asforme wrote:
    So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:

    Places Off Limits
    • None
    This thread is about wrcken who is a boss, not an owner ofa bar where he works, where he-with permission from the owner(s) of said bar and even a CPL-must OC per MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Unless, the bars primary source of income is from food. Only the owner(s) of a business may CC without CPL.

    Establishments (Bars) whose primary source of income is from food (= or > 51%), CC is allowed if you have a CPL, unless they are posted, but we all know how that goes.:quirky

    As far as, "Places Off Limits", I too would like an update. However, I think it would be extremely difficult due to the requirements to OC or CC. Meaning, the places off limits to CC and also the places off limits to OC, with CPL and also the places off limits to CC and places off limits to OC, without CPL.

    Edit to add:

    I stand corrected, per Wiki:

    Agent can mean:

    • Agent (law): a person authorised to act on behalf of another person
    I think an employee can carry concealed with theowner's or his agents permissionin and on the property in question. See d) below.




    5o (1) An individual licensed under this act to carry a concealed pistol, shall not carry a concealed pistol on the premises of any of the following

    a) A school or school property…

    b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.

    c) A sports arena or stadium.

    d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998…This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.

    e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple or other place of worship, unless the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of concealed pistol on that property or facility.

    f) An entertainment facility [that has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more].

    g) A hospital.

    h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university. [Emphasis added.]

    Section 5o of the Act expressly prohibits persons licensed under the Act from carrying concealed pistols in the specified


    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  17. #17
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    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    "agent" I did not take as simply an employee who was/is appointed as a boss.

    My understanding-and apparently wrong-of an "agent" was someone who was given power of attorney or durable power of attorney of a person/business.

    Sorry, I must be wrong. Where do I send the check.
    Well, I can get you an address to a guy here in Utah who needs a retainer fee of $1500.

    The money was suppossed to have gone to his daughters room for and A/C but now can't due to a bogus charge of Disorderly Conduct just for merely OCing. That's where the money could go.

    Feel charitable???

  18. #18
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    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    "agent" I did not take as simply an employee who was/is appointed as a boss.

    My understanding-and apparently wrong-of an "agent" was someone who was given power of attorney or durable power of attorney of a person/business.

    Sorry, I must be wrong. Where do I send the check.
    Well, I can get you an address to a guy here in Utah who needs a retainer fee of $1500.

    The money was suppossed to have gone to his daughters room for and A/C but now can't due to a bogus charge of Disorderly Conduct just for merely OCing. That's where the money could go.

    Feel charitable???
    Details of the charge would be helpful. If open carry is legal how didhe get charged under disorderly conduct. Did he resist the arrest, we want more details so we can learn from it.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  19. #19
    Regular Member
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    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    UTOC, (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon, is only vaid due to MCL 750.234d, however, we are prohibited under MCL 28.425o, i.e. possession of concealed weapons.

    Page is long here is the link

    28.425o




  20. #20
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
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    2,580

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    "agent" I did not take as simply an employee who was/is appointed as a boss.

    My understanding-and apparently wrong-of an "agent" was someone who was given power of attorney or durable power of attorney of a person/business.

    Sorry, I must be wrong. Where do I send the check.
    Well, I can get you an address to a guy here in Utah who needs a retainer fee of $1500.

    The money was suppossed to have gone to his daughters room for and A/C but now can't due to a bogus charge of Disorderly Conduct just for merely OCing. That's where the money could go.

    Feel charitable???
    Details of the charge would be helpful. If open carry is legal how didhe get charged under disorderly conduct. Did he resist the arrest, we want more details so we can learn from it.
    I am gonna just leave it that for now til he has properly talk things over with his attorney. Legal details. I think you will understand....

    From the details that I have heard from him...No resisting...Just peaceable walking. The Officers just had to find something....go figure

    I will later after reciving his permission to do so leave more details..

    TJ

  21. #21
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
    Posts
    6,445

    Post imported post

    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    "agent" I did not take as simply an employee who was/is appointed as a boss.

    My understanding-and apparently wrong-of an "agent" was someone who was given power of attorney or durable power of attorney of a person/business.

    Sorry, I must be wrong. Where do I send the check.
    Well, I can get you an address to a guy here in Utah who needs a retainer fee of $1500.

    The money was suppossed to have gone to his daughters room for and A/C but now can't due to a bogus charge of Disorderly Conduct just for merely OCing. That's where the money could go.

    Feel charitable???
    Details of the charge would be helpful. If open carry is legal how didhe get charged under disorderly conduct. Did he resist the arrest, we want more details so we can learn from it.
    I am gonna just leave it that for now til he has properly talk things over with his attorney. Legal details. I think you will understand....

    From the details that I have heard from him...No resisting...Just peaceable walking. The Officers just had to find something....go figure

    I will later after reciving his permission to do so leave more details..

    TJ
    I'll bet ya a buck the charges will be dropped.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  22. #22
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
    Posts
    2,580

    Post imported post

    Venator wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    Venator wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    "agent" I did not take as simply an employee who was/is appointed as a boss.

    My understanding-and apparently wrong-of an "agent" was someone who was given power of attorney or durable power of attorney of a person/business.

    Sorry, I must be wrong. Where do I send the check.
    Well, I can get you an address to a guy here in Utah who needs a retainer fee of $1500.

    The money was suppossed to have gone to his daughters room for and A/C but now can't due to a bogus charge of Disorderly Conduct just for merely OCing. That's where the money could go.

    Feel charitable???
    Details of the charge would be helpful. If open carry is legal how didhe get charged under disorderly conduct. Did he resist the arrest, we want more details so we can learn from it.
    I am gonna just leave it that for now til he has properly talk things over with his attorney. Legal details. I think you will understand....

    From the details that I have heard from him...No resisting...Just peaceable walking. The Officers just had to find something....go figure

    I will later after reciving his permission to do so leave more details..

    TJ
    I'll bet ya a buck the charges will be dropped.
    I am confident they will, but the retainer fee still won't. Trying to see how we all can help him with the fee somehow.

    I know he DOES NOT have that kinda money laying around. Sad that his daughter won't have a cool roomfor the summer

    TJ

  23. #23
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Morgan, Utah, USA
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    2,580

    Post imported post

    SpringerXDacp wrote: [quote]UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SpringerXDacp wrote:
    wrcken2 wrote:
    I am the Boss................. I would very much be willing to let anybody OC or CC as long as they are legal. I will ask Jerry today about having an OC lunch. It could be a good way to get the word out about Open Carry.

    wrcken, as posted above and throughout, many times, in the Michigan Forum, the only person who may legally CC in the bar is the owner(s), with or without a CPL. The employees of said bar-actually any bar in Michigan-may carry, but only OC, with permission of owner(s) only, not by an employee who is appointed as a supervisor/boss/etc.

    Looking forward to a Meet & Greet.
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    UTOC, (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon, is only vaid due to MCL 750.234d, however, we are prohibited under MCL 28.425o, i.e. possession of concealed weapons.

    Page is long here is the link

    [color=black][b]SpringerXDacp, reading ALL of the statue it makes more sense. I stand corrected

    TJ


  24. #24
    Anti-Saldana Freedom Fighter Venator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Lansing area, Michigan, USA
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    Post imported post

    UTOC-45-44 wrote:

    I am confident they will, but the retainer fee still won't. Trying to see how we all can help him with the fee somehow.

    I know he DOES NOT have that kinda money laying around. Sad that his daughter won't have a cool roomfor the summer

    TJ
    Civil suit. Most likely won't win but it will cost the department something. Filing a suit isn't too expensive. Have the lawyer do it to earn the rest of his retainer. I can't image he will bill for all $1500. It should take no more than a hour or two for him to call the prosecutor and get it dropped. But we are talking about attorneys.
    An Amazon best seller "MY PARENTS OPEN CARRY" http://www.myparentsopencarry.com/

    *The information contained above is not meant to be legal advice, but is solely intended as a starting point for further research. These are my opinions, if you have further questions it is advisable to seek out an attorney that is well versed in firearm law.

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Burton, Michigan
    Posts
    3,361

    Post imported post

    UTOC-45-44 wrote:
    SNIP
    2) This section does not apply to any of the following:

    (a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.

    (b) A peace officer.

    (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

    (d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity.
    UTOC, (c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon, is only vaid due to MCL 750.234d, however, we are prohibited under MCL 28.425o, i.e. possession of concealed weapons.

    Page is long here is the link

    SpringerXDacp, reading ALL of the statue it makes more sense. I stand corrected

    TJ




    No TJ you were not wrong, not really, it just depends on the situation.


    Actually, I was the one that was wrong. My misunderstanding of "agent" in MCL 750.234d was the problem. And also, in MCL 28.425o;

    (d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the Michigan liquor control code of 1998…This subdivision shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.

    Edit for formatting



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