imported post
asforme wrote:
SpringerXDacp wrote:
asforme wrote:
So you need permission of the owner to OC in an establishment? We need to have the Michigan page on OCDO updated. Currently it says:
Places Off Limits
This thread is about wrcken who is a boss, not an owner ofa bar where he works, where he-with permission from the owner(s) of said bar and even a CPL-must OC per MCL 750.234d and MCL 28.425o. Unless, the bars primary source of income is from food. Only the owner(s) of a business may CC without CPL.
Establishments (Bars) whose primary source of income is from food (= or > 51%), CC is allowed if you have a CPL, unless they are posted, but we all know how that goes.:quirky
As far as, "Places Off Limits", I too would like an update. However, I think it would be extremely difficult due to the requirements to OC or CC. Meaning, the places off limits to CC and also the places off limits to OC, with CPL and also the places off limits to CC and places off limits to OC, without CPL.
I think the whole state sections may need a revamp. They have none under Virginia too, but we cannot OC in state parks, but can CC. Conversely we cannot CC anywhere that sells alcohol for on site consumption, but we can OC. Is there a good place to find out this information for Michigan? We have the VCDL in Virginia, but my parents live in Michigan so I will be visiting there frequently, and carrying once I have my VA CHP.
Also how do you know where the business gets most of it's income? Can it be assumed that most family dining gets its income from food? Places like Applebees ect...
Welcome to Michigan. Below is some infor that may help. Michigan didn't want to burden the bar owners with having them post the 51% signs so they left it open. Generally if the place is a restaurant that also has alcohol sales you would be fine. If the place is mostly a bar that sells a few burgers but mostly booze, then most likely you could not carry there concealed but with a CPL it has been opined (below) that you could carry openly. But all these places are private property and they can ask you to leave or face trespassing charges. With your Virgina permit I suggest you carry under both the requirements of yours and Michigan's to be safe. Most likely you would be okay to carry concealed in a restaurant that sold booze with your permit. But I'm not a lawyer.
Places off limits to concealed carry.
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]a) A school or school property…unless dropping of or picking up kids.[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]b) A public or private day care center, public or private child caring agency, or public or private child placing agency.[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]c) A sports arena or stadium.[/font]]
[size=d) A dining room, lounge, or bar area of a premises licensed under the][size=Michigan][size= liquor control code of 1998…This subdivision][size=[font="Times New Roman"]shall not apply to an owner or employee of the premises.[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]e) Any property or facility owned or operated by a church, synagogue, mosque, temple or other place of worship, unless[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]the presiding official or officials of the church, synagogue, mosque, temple, or other place of worship permit the carrying of[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]concealed pistol on that property or facility.[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]f) An entertainment facility [that has a seating capacity of 2,500 or more].[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]g) A hospital.[/font]]
[size=[font="Times New Roman"]h) A dormitory or classroom of a community college, college, or university. [
Emphasis added.][/font]]
Opinions on open carry in these zones with a CPL.
4) [/b]Three opinions on this topic. An AG’s opinion, the Michigan State Police, and a State Senator’s.[/b]
AG opinion No. 7097 [/b]FIREARMS LAWS OF MICHIGAN January 11, 2002: This conclusion is not affected by the provisions of section 234d of the Michigan Penal Code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.1 et seq. That statute prohibits certain persons from possessing firearms on certain types of premises as follows: Sec. 234d (1) Except as otherwise provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.
b) A church or other house of religious worship.
c) A court.
d) A theatre.
e) A sports arena.
f) A day care center.
g) A hospital.
h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act.
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
a) A person who owns, or is employed by or contracted by, an entity described in subsection (1) if the possession of that firearm is to provide security services for that entity.
b) A peace officer.
c) [/b]A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon[/b].[/b]
d) A person who possesses a firearm on the premises of an entity described in subsection (1) if that possession is with the permission of the owner or an agent of the owner of that entity. [Emphasis added.]
By its express terms, section 234d prohibits certain persons from carrying a firearm in the enumerated places but explicitly exempts from its prohibition “[a] person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.” Thus, any person licensed to carry a concealed pistol,… is exempt from the gun-free zone restrictions imposed by section 234d of the Penal Code and may therefore possess firearms while on the types of premises listed in that statute.[/b]
MSP opinion:[/b] Your analysis is correct. Non-CPL pistol free zones do not apply to CPL holders. The CPL pistol free zones only apply to CPL holders carrying a concealed pistol. Therefore, a CPL holder may openly carry a pistol in Michigan's pistol free zones. Sincerely, Sgt. Thomas Deasy, Michigan State Police Executive Resource Section, 714 S. Harrison Rd. East Lansing, MI 48823
(517) 336-6441
Senator Prusi’s opinion:[/b] My office received your inquiry regarding the legality of a licensed CPL holder to open carry a firearm in "Pistol Free Zones." On Friday we received a copy of your correspondence, as Senator Carl Levin's Office referred your letter to my office because your concerns mainly pertain to state issues. As such, I am happy to assist you in this matter.
My office has contacted the Michigan State Police legislative liaison and has received some answers to share with you. According to the liaison, it is legal to openly carry a firearm in a "Pistol Free Zone" if you are licensed a CPL holder. I was advised that your information was correct that MCL 28.425o and MCL 750-234d permit this activity. I was informed that there was no other additional relevant laws regarding this matter….Michael A Prusi, State Senator 38th District"
