obstruction of an officer

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Too many rats in the cage tryin' to get their time on the wheel...philosophically speaking that is...

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I had almost the same thing happen to me in Ohio when I was 22 years old. An Ohio state trooper drove extraordinarily erratically, trying to tell me something by yelling through his open window as he drove right next to me, not quite in his own lane. I was a poor college student and driving an older car and apparently I topped outat 58 mph in a 55 mph zone while the trooper was directly behind me. The trooper was upset because I had the nerve to "speed" as he was directly behind me. Anyway, I called 911 while he was driving like this, and asked for a trooper because I feared for my safety - I thought he might cause a wreck. I pulled over when he activated his lights, and the officer made a very big deal out of my having "admitted" to a crimewhen I acknowledged that I could have been going as many as 2 or 3 miles over 55 at some moments while he was behind me. I told him I called for help because he scared me, especiallybecause I could not hear him at all and had no idea whatsoever what he was trying to yell at me through the open window. He said he was trying to give me "a warning" without pulling me over. He implied this was a favor on his part. I told hima trooper was on the way and hebecamevery angry, but drove away very shortly thereafter, telling me he was "letting me go" this time. When the trooper arrived, I asked where the nearest sub-station was to drive there to speak directly to a sgt to file a complaint. The trooper was curt and rude but told me. I went there and they barely spoke to me and made me wait over 60 minutes to speak to someone. This was a small sub-station of perhaps 3 or 4 employees total in an isolated part of Ohio. There was nothing going on, they were trying to get me to leave. Anyway, I eventually spoke to someone, then followed up the next day with a typed, 3 page faxed statement. About a month later I was back at JMU (working at the JMU Police Department) when I got the call - my complaint was "unproven" or something ambiguous like that. The officer did tell me that the trooper was informally counseled that next time he should have pulled someone like me over and given me a ticket (!) because communicating through the window could be dangerous.

PS - The overwhelming majority of police officers are nothing like this. It always struck me as interesting while working for the JMU PD that each local jurisdiction had a remarkably specific (and different)"reputation" and culture. I do think that bad officers are much more likely to be found in specific police cultures,and the folks at the very top make all the difference in this regard.

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LEO 229 wrote:

The charge was bogus and not warranted.

The deputy is an odd ball and does not represent all LEOs out there.

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I don't know. The few LEOs I've talked to say they will essentially 'tailgate' people until the person commits some driving violation (not really hard to do tbh), and then pull them over.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The charge was bogus and not warranted.

The deputy is an odd ball and does not represent all LEOs out there.

Click to expand...

I don't know. The few LEOs I've talked to say they will essentially 'tailgate' people until the person commits some driving violation (not really hard to do tbh), and then pull them over.

Click to expand...

I have also heard this :what:from local Law Enforcement:X.

TJ

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I had a cop tailgate me like that and I slammed on the brakes and he damn near rear-ended me. He got annoyed at this and threw his lights on and stopped me, asking why I was stopping in the middle of the road like that. I said it shouldn't be a problem if someone maintains "assured clear distance" (I think I made up a story aboutbraking for a squirrel in the road just to annoy him). He ran my ID for wants and warrants and let me go with some vague "warning," although he never identified anything I did wrong. They're usually busy running your plates when they follow so closely, so I'm surprised he was able to stop.

-ljp

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Legba wrote:

I had a cop tailgate me like that and I slammed on the brakes and he damn near rear-ended me. He got annoyed at this and threw his lights on and stopped me, asking why I was stopping in the middle of the road like that. I said it shouldn't be a problem if someone maintains "assured clear distance" (I think I made up a story aboutbraking for a squirrel in the road just to annoy him). He ran my ID for wants and warrants and let me go with some vague "warning," although he never identified anything I did wrong. They're usually busy running your plates when they follow so closely, so I'm surprised he was able to stop.

-ljp

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There are times when a cop does need to get close to see the tags. Like when you have a tinted cover and it is hard to make out the letters. Is that a "B" or "8"... "1" or "I"....


The best thing you can do is keep lowing down.....


If you get stopped.... you can get their name and file a complaint they were tailgating you.

In Virginia.... if you slammed on your brakes for no "obvious" or "reasonable"reason with a car tailgating you... it could get you a RD ticket.

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If you stopped due to an animal in the roadway how can a driver tailgating you verify it was or wasn't there when your car occludes their view? Sounds like another bogus charge to me.

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Well I lied about the animal in the road (oh my - a perp lied to a cop). Anyway, in Ohio, if you hit someone from behind, it's pretty much your fault, whatever the reason they slowed down/stopped (although it is illegal to impede traffic without a reason, you always have to maintain assured clear distance behind someone). As you said, there's little chance of an animal sticking around to use for an exhibit, but likewise, nobody can really contradict you either if that was your stated reasonfor stopping.

-ljp

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SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

SNIP
I was a poor college student and driving an older car and apparently I topped outat 58 mph in a 55 mph zone while the trooper was directly behind me.
...the officer made a very big deal out of my having "admitted" to a crimewhen I acknowledged that I could have been going as many as 2 or 3 miles over 55 at some moments while he was behind me.

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Back in the early 90s I helped a buddy get out of a speeding ticket for 3 mph over. I found the guidelines for mandated speedometer accuracy toleranceS for auto manufacturers. The government approved tolerance at that time was that the speedometer be +/- 3 mph accuracy. He took that to court, showed the judge, pointed out that he was given a ticket within the range of that tolerance and argued that he could not be held to a higher standard of accuracy than than the gov't mandated tolerances of the measuring device installed in his vehicle. Judge agreed.

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Jim675 wrote:

If you stopped due to an animal in the roadway how can a driver tailgating you verify it was or wasn't there when your car occludes their view? Sounds like another bogus charge to me.

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For you to stop so hard and fast... It better be a dog or something substantially larger you could not possible pass over. You should be able to see the critter scampering off into the woods.

It also depends on the area. In some sections of roadwayit is very rare to find any animals except deer.

If you want to go to court and tell the Judge...

"You Honor, I was driving 55 MPH and noticed a car tailgating me as I checked my rear view mirror every 3-5 seconds as a good motorists is supposed to do. I noticed a squirrel travel in front of my car from right to left and did not want to kill it so I slammed on my brakes. Now, it is not MY fault if the driver behind me could not stop in time but I had to stop to avoid hurting that wild animal."

Judge says "So you would rather risk serious injury or even deathto another motorist behind you that you know will have little time tostopjust so that you can savea squirrel?"

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That would be a quite acceptable defense in Ohio, yes (if possibly amusing to the judge). They beat that into us in driver's ed - it's never OK to rear-end someone.

-ljp

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deepdiver wrote:

SicSemperTyrannis wrote:

SNIP
I was a poor college student and driving an older car and apparently I topped outat 58 mph in a 55 mph zone while the trooper was directly behind me.
...the officer made a very big deal out of my having "admitted" to a crimewhen I acknowledged that I could have been going as many as 2 or 3 miles over 55 at some moments while he was behind me.

Click to expand...

Back in the early 90s I helped a buddy get out of a speeding ticket for 3 mph over. I found the guidelines for mandated speedometer accuracy toleranceS for auto manufacturers. The government approved tolerance at that time was that the speedometer be +/- 3 mph accuracy. He took that to court, showed the judge, pointed out that he was given a ticket within the range of that tolerance and argued that he could not be held to a higher standard of accuracy than than the gov't mandated tolerances of the measuring device installed in his vehicle. Judge agreed.

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I have heard of these tickets and I laugh. If the police have to stop people doing so little over the speed limit... that must be a VERY safe town!!!! Going 10 over must be a rare occurrence.

I do not write for anything less than 10 as this shows intent and not a minor push of the pedal.

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kurtmax_0 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The charge was bogus and not warranted.

The deputy is an odd ball and does not represent all LEOs out there.

Click to expand...

I don't know. The few LEOs I've talked to say they will essentially 'tailgate' people until the person commits some driving violation (not really hard to do tbh), and then pull them over.

Click to expand...

Tailgating by a LEO is nothing more than manufacturing provocation, and compromises the safety of the Driver being tailgated. just another illegal technique used by LE to justify voilating your rights so they can harass you.

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LEO 229 wrote:

It better be a dog or something substantially larger you could not possible pass over. You should be able to see the critter scampering off into the woods.

I have been tailgated so closely I don't believe the tailgater could see my tail lights, much less any animal shorter than my car. Anything ahead and to the right of my vehicle was absolutely out of view.

It also depends on the area. In some sections of roadwayit is very rare to find any animals except deer.

A: I find it hard to imagine a habitat that supports deer that does not also support skunks, dogs, coyotes, pocupines, racoons, etc. If its in the country - livestock. It might have been a child or a bicyclist.

B: If this sequence of events had happened, it is not my responsibility to prove I saw a dangerous object in/approaching the road. The burden of proof would be on the person that rear-ended me to prove I didn't. A somewhat more difficult endeavor.

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I understand that provided an chance to avoid a collision it is my responsibility to do so. I also know that if I legimately slow quickly and a following vehicle hits my car they are in the wrong. Even if I performed an illegal manuever that does not make it OK for them to rear-end me, it just means I get a ticket as well.

I hate tailgators. (LEO or not is irrelevant.)

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563 wrote:

kurtmax_0 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The charge was bogus and not warranted.

The deputy is an odd ball and does not represent all LEOs out there.

Click to expand...

I don't know. The few LEOs I've talked to say they will essentially 'tailgate' people until the person commits some driving violation (not really hard to do tbh), and then pull them over.

Click to expand...

Tailgating by a LEO is nothing more than manufacturing provocation, and compromises the safety of the Driver being tailgated. just another illegal technique used by LE to justify voilating your rights so they can harass you.

Click to expand...

Sure, sure.....

How is it that you know this is a technique? Or are you speculating? :lol:

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LEO 229 wrote:

563 wrote:

kurtmax_0 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

The charge was bogus and not warranted.

The deputy is an odd ball and does not represent all LEOs out there.

Click to expand...

I don't know. The few LEOs I've talked to say they will essentially 'tailgate' people until the person commits some driving violation (not really hard to do tbh), and then pull them over.

Click to expand...

Tailgating by a LEO is nothing more than manufacturing provocation, and compromises the safety of the Driver being tailgated. just another illegal technique used by LE to justify voilating your rights so they can harass you.

Click to expand...

Sure, sure.....

How is it that you know this is a technique? Or are you speculating? :lol:

Click to expand...

Since you're asking LEO229, I would say 14yrs working in LE qualifies me. no need to speculate here. What I seen and witnessed, and learned made me sick. and I have absolutely ZERO respect for LE.

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Jim675 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

It better be a dog or something substantially larger you could not possible pass over. You should be able to see the critter scampering off into the woods.

I have been tailgated so closely I don't believe the tailgater could see my tail lights, much less any animal shorter than my car. Anything ahead and to the right of my vehicle was absolutely out of view.

It also depends on the area. In some sections of roadwayit is very rare to find any animals except deer.

A: I find it hard to imagine a habitat that supports deer that does not also support skunks, dogs, coyotes, pocupines, racoons, etc. If its in the country - livestock. It might have been a child or a bicyclist.

B: If this sequence of events had happened, it is not my responsibility to prove I saw a dangerous object in/approaching the road. The burden of proof would be on the person that rear-ended me to prove I didn't. A somewhat more difficult endeavor.

Click to expand...

I understand that provided an chance to avoid a collision it is my responsibility to do so. I also know that if I legimately slow quickly and a following vehicle hits my car they are in the wrong. Even if I performed an illegal manuever that does not make it OK for them to rear-end me, it just means I get a ticket as well.

I hate tailgators. (LEO or not is irrelevant.)

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Sure.... The guy hitting his breaks can get a reckless driving ticket and the other a ticket for following too close.

In regards to location.... It is really going to depend on the animal you allege crossed your path requiring you to break hard.

Small animals can be struck without causing you to lose control or cause any damage to your car. So there is going to be little justification to save a squirrel and risk injuring the people behind you.

A small child or bicyclist, dog, horse, dog, yeti, or Bigfoot.... will likely all be seen by the other driver at some point in time as they cross the road.

Open country roads do not normally have dogs and kids running across the roadfrom one wood line to the other but you would see this with deer.Skunks and other critters move much slower so you would have time to view them and react.

City streets do not normally have deer and yetisso my point was directed at what you claim was in the road will have to fit the criteria for you to stop that hard and fast.

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Hmpf, my experience with the PSP in regard to traffic policing has been fairly positive. On highways with 65 limits, they only tend to pull out if you're doing 80 or faster (or have out of state plates ), and then will follow at a distance to see if you do anything stupid, and either pull back onto the median and leave you alone, or pull you over, accordingly.

Anyhow, um, yeah, open carry is good

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LEO 229 wrote:

Legba wrote:

I had a cop tailgate me like that and I slammed on the brakes and he damn near rear-ended me. He got annoyed at this and threw his lights on and stopped me, asking why I was stopping in the middle of the road like that. I said it shouldn't be a problem if someone maintains "assured clear distance" (I think I made up a story aboutbraking for a squirrel in the road just to annoy him). He ran my ID for wants and warrants and let me go with some vague "warning," although he never identified anything I did wrong. They're usually busy running your plates when they follow so closely, so I'm surprised he was able to stop.

-ljp

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There are times when a cop does need to get close to see the tags. Like when you have a tinted cover and it is hard to make out the letters. Is that a "B" or "8"... "1" or "I"....


The best thing you can do is keep lowing down.....


If you get stopped.... you can get their name and file a complaint they were tailgating you.

In Virginia.... if you slammed on your brakes for no "obvious" or "reasonable"reason with a car tailgating you... it could get you a RD ticket.

Click to expand...

1. Good luck trying to PROVE you didn't see an animal cross the road. If he couldn't see you stop, how's he going to see a rabbit dart across the road, whether there was one there or not?

2. He's gong to have to ADMIT he was tailgating you. He'll have to explain that too. If he says his attention was diverted to something else, he's in no position to refute the animal story.

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LEO 229 wrote:

Jim675 wrote:

LEO 229 wrote:

It better be a dog or something substantially larger you could not possible pass over. You should be able to see the critter scampering off into the woods.

I have been tailgated so closely I don't believe the tailgater could see my tail lights, much less any animal shorter than my car. Anything ahead and to the right of my vehicle was absolutely out of view.

It also depends on the area. In some sections of roadwayit is very rare to find any animals except deer.

A: I find it hard to imagine a habitat that supports deer that does not also support skunks, dogs, coyotes, pocupines, racoons, etc. If its in the country - livestock. It might have been a child or a bicyclist.

B: If this sequence of events had happened, it is not my responsibility to prove I saw a dangerous object in/approaching the road. The burden of proof would be on the person that rear-ended me to prove I didn't. A somewhat more difficult endeavor.

Click to expand...

I understand that provided an chance to avoid a collision it is my responsibility to do so. I also know that if I legimately slow quickly and a following vehicle hits my car they are in the wrong. Even if I performed an illegal manuever that does not make it OK for them to rear-end me, it just means I get a ticket as well.

I hate tailgators. (LEO or not is irrelevant.)

Click to expand...

Sure.... The guy hitting his breaks can get a reckless driving ticket and the other a ticket for following too close.

In regards to location.... It is really going to depend on the animal you allege crossed your path requiring you to break hard.

Small animals can be struck without causing you to lose control or cause any damage to your car. So there is going to be little justification to save a squirrel and risk injuring the people behind you.

A small child or bicyclist, dog, horse, dog, yeti, or Bigfoot.... will likely all be seen by the other driver at some point in time as they cross the road.

Open country roads do not normally have dogs and kids running across the roadfrom one wood line to the other but you would see this with deer.Skunks and other critters move much slower so you would have time to view them and react.

City streets do not normally have deer and yetisso my point was directed at what you claim was in the road will have to fit the criteria for you to stop that hard and fast.

Click to expand...

A friend was driving down the hill from the 4th Training Brigade area towards the obstacle course at Ft. Knox. A rabbit ran in front of his car. He hit it and severely dented his oil pan, putting his car out of action. I had to give him a ride back to his company.

Another friend ran over a rabbit or other small animal. Very shortly thereafter, one of his tires went flat. Turns out that a hollow bone punctured his tire, allowing air to escape, like one of the spikes from a stop strip.

I work in an urban area. I see rabbits along the fencelines of the parking lots all of the time. In fact I saw one just last week, and one the week prior.

When I lived in Chicago, I periodically saw VERY large rats crossing city streets at night.

If he can't see you stop, there's no way he could see a rabbit, squirrel or a groundhog. If he's ill-advisedly following you too close, he's putting himself in a position to be unable to refute any reasonable assertion you make.