Recent case of ignorance by LEO

imported post

Even in a gun-friendly place like Colorado Springs, don't take it for granted that all LEO's know the law. My wife was recently pulled over for speeding. When asked for her papers she informed the CSPD cop that the registration and proof of insurance were in the glovebox... along with the .38 S&W she keeps there. The cop asked if she had a CCW to which she replied that she does not. He then told her that that was illegal in CO and she should get her CCW. BZZT! - Wrong!

The more I think about this incident the more I'm thinking I'm going to print a copy of the relevent CRS sections, laminate them and keep them in my wallet.

Just FYI.....

imported post

Time to file a complaint!!!

imported post

RockyMtnScotsman wrote:

The more I think about this incident the more I'm thinking I'm going to print a copy of the relevent CRS sections, laminate them and keep them in my wallet.

Just FYI.....

Click to expand...

Many cops, especially the ignorant ones who need it, will refuse to take or read anything you give them. Just know your rights, carry a recorder (if legal), and file a complaint when it's over. There's pretty much no way you're going to convince an arrogant cop that you know the law better than they do when you are confronted, your only hope is to take care of it after the fact.

imported post

Evil Ernie wrote:

Time to file a complaint!!!

Click to expand...

How did the officer behave? Did he arrest or detain her for having her gun in the glovebox?

I would file a "complaint", but I would also give the officer kudos if he was professional. The complaint would be aimed at the education of the department, not the actions of the officers.

This is based on the limited amount of information about the officer's actions. If he was not professional, file the complaint against him.

I have filed a few where I praise the officer's actions and professionalism, but request the department better educate the officers on the current gun laws. It has worked well and made friends.

imported post

I didn't file a complaint because according to my wife the cop was nice about it and was pro-CCW in his recommendation that she get one. If he'd been anything else then you bet I'd be b*tching to CSPD!

imported post

RockyMtnScotsman wrote:

I didn't file a complaint because according to my wife the cop was nice about it and was pro-CCW in his recommendation that she get one. If he'd been anything else then you bet I'd be b*tching to CSPD!

Click to expand...

Then write them a thank you note for his courteous behavior, and add thathe was mistaken about the CCW requirement and that you would like to ensure that erroneous information is not spread to the public, no matter how courteously it is done.

imported post

Even in COS there are some cops that didn't get the memo--the old "10% never get the message" is true in all professions. However, that he thought she was doing something unlawful, but only recommended she get a CCW shows the basic tone of the police here. If in doubt, they will favor the right to carry virtually always. That most certainly applies to the El Paso County sheriffs office. The sheriff, Terry Makita,is as pro gun as you can get. When I first drove to Peterson AFB and told the SP at the gate I was taking my Ruger to the armory to hold for me while at Visiting Officers Quarters, he spent 10 minutes talking about the best ammo to carry in his personal 92F! Good thing we were off the main road!

imported post

RockyMtnScotsman wrote:

He then went told her that that was illegal in CO and she should get her CCW.

Click to expand...

If the cop was ignorant of the law, then she would have been arrested. Hence the cop knew it wasn't illegal.

imported post

Well? What did he say was the best ammo to carry in his 92F? Come on, give it up...

imported post

jmlefler wrote:

Well? What did he say was the best ammo to carry in his 92F? Come on, give it up...

Click to expand...

SPs can and do carry hollowpoints. Some people are shocked, as the Hague convention bans them in wartime. However, here the Sky Cops are more concerned about terroists--and no convention protects those sobs. He was a Tech Sgt, so had been around for a while. They are issued Remingtons, similar to Golden Sabers, 146gr. He liked Federal ammo better, +P. The Rems weren't called +P, but were NATO pressures, so that is above a + rating anyway. I told him I prefer Hydra-Shoks, +P+ in my Browning. He said they were a fine stopping round, but had better luck in his Berettas--GI and private, with the "Government Specification Load" Remingtons second to the standard Federal JHP, +Ps. (And he gets the Rems for free, so that enters into it, as well....) Chatted with the base Armorer when I took my Ruger for them to keep while on base. Asked him if he'd miss a case or two of the Rems...he said he'd turn his back...:uhoh:

imported post

Gunslinger wrote:

jmlefler wrote:

Well? What did he say was the best ammo to carry in his 92F? Come on, give it up...

Click to expand...

SPs can and do carry hollowpoints. Some people are shocked, as the Hague convention bans them in wartime.

Click to expand...

I have been told that while hollowpoints have more stopping power, that ball ammo is actually more lethal because they leave an exit wound. Anyone know if this is true?

imported post

asforme wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

jmlefler wrote:

Well? What did he say was the best ammo to carry in his 92F? Come on, give it up...

Click to expand...

SPs can and do carry hollowpoints. Some people are shocked, as the Hague convention bans them in wartime.

Click to expand...

I have been told that while hollowpoints have more stopping power, that ball ammo is actually more lethal because they leave an exit wound. Anyone know if this is true?

Click to expand...

The ball goes right through, unless it hits bone. The opened diameter of the hollowpoint creates a much larger wound cavity, therefor more shock to the BG and greater stopping power for an inferior shot placement, and much better chance of a kill if you hit the primary areas. That being said, I would assume greater lethality if you hit in a major or secondary part of the body. That's why the Hague convention banned dum-dums in the first place, supposedly, because recovery from a wound to a secondary area is not likely--bleedout. .36" d exit wounds really have little to do with lethality. It's the internal damage that counts.

imported post

Gunslinger wrote:

jmlefler wrote:

Well? What did he say was the best ammo to carry in his 92F? Come on, give it up...

Click to expand...

SPs can and do carry hollowpoints.

Click to expand...

Whoa, that's news to me. I'm a Security Forces augmentee at Wright Patt, and went through the SF training back in January. They clearly stated that cops carry FMJ. Now the security contractors do indeed carry Hydrashoks, but at every base I've been to in the past 8 years they're still carrying standard ball ammo.

I dunno...maybe they've changed the policy at Pete...if so it must be relatively recent.

imported post

USAF_MetalChris wrote:

Gunslinger wrote:

jmlefler wrote:

Well? What did he say was the best ammo to carry in his 92F? Come on, give it up...

Click to expand...

SPs can and do carry hollowpoints.

Click to expand...

Whoa, that's news to me. I'm a Security Forces augmentee at Wright Patt, and went through the SF training back in January. They clearly stated that cops carry FMJ. Now the security contractors do indeed carry Hydrashoks, but at every base I've been to in the past 8 years they're still carrying standard ball ammo.

I dunno...maybe they've changed the policy at Pete...if so it must be relatively recent.

Click to expand...

This would have been in 2005, Sep when I first got here. He actually pulled out a spare mag and showed me.