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Thread: Open Carry of a firearm in washington state is 100%

  1. #1
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    ILLEGAL!!!!!!


    I just got home from the lewis co. sheriff's office,I went in, and asked if there was somewhere i could check a firearm. the security officer told me there was not, and that i would have to go secure it elsewhere, in my vehicle. I asked him why there were not lock boxes. He said that state law doesnt require one.

    I replyed with, yes it does. and that i wanted to talk to an on duty deputy ,now.

    he said. go secure the pistol, and you can. I go back out side. and secure it. Walk through the detector, and my holster goes off, I still pass through.



    bear in mind, im already HOT from that encounter.. Now i wait about 3 minutes for an on duty deputy, i think. to come down and tell me that OC is illegal ,because it causes alarm. Then he said he recognized me, and i agreed. and just then, someone out of uniform with a huge mustache walks up, and asks me whats going on. I explain to him that I was just inquiring about a training bulletin on this very same matter.

    the deputy takes his binder and lifts up my shirt to reveal my serpa. and asks me where the firearm is.. I say, it's secured in my car ,right now.

    The other guy, out of uniform ask me if it's loaded.. I say, Yes. But not chambered.

    He then proceeds to tell me that it is illegal in washington state to leave a firearm in a car, While it is loaded, of any kind. (bullits in mag) or in chamber. and that i could be thrown in jail for it.

    The deputy stands there, while the other guy grills me about why i even need to carry a firearm, but then he tells me to follow him back to his office, because he wants to go further into the matter. I tried to just offer him an OCDO card. and he refused. I follow him back to his office, and had a seat. He then asks me If im military, i say Yes, and offer my MIL.ID. he sais that he was 'CID' for umpteen years and that if im in the service, that im not allowed to carry, and that i could baysically be thrown in the brig. I tell him that im national guard.. and that it's a little different for me. and that even the LT has cleared it. Just to make matters better for his soldiers. as it keeps us safer when we arent on duty.

    I then bring up Open carry, just to make it clear. he said that city ordinances prohibit ANYONE from openly displaying, or carrying of a firearm as it warrants alarm. I tell him that people have phobias, and that you cant go locking up clowns because tsome peopel are afraid of them. He tells me again, that it is illegal. he then asks me if I am a hunter, I say No. and he said that if it's out of city limits, it is more or less permitted. and that people display them (guns) in racks all the time. I make the point of (ISNT THAT THE SAME!!!) he says No, because they have business carrying a firearm. and in his opinion only people that consist of Law enforcemtn, or goverment are allowed to carry, or even posess a firearm, especially if it's open.



    I tell him that olympia has issued a training bulliten saying that it is LEGAL to carry openly, AND Concealed, AND LOADED. he tells me that they are in the wrong. I wrapped the convorsation up. and walked out. I'm under the impression that we will encounter the department this sunday, and that it will quickly go sour.

    So this is your warning.

    As he clearly stated that

    WASHINGTON IS NOT AN OPEN CARRY STATE

    and that Concealed carry is ,as a matter of fact ILLEGAL in other states.



    On my way out. the security officer that was a dick to me, said..'SEE THERES A SIGN RIGHT THERE I read it, and it says NOTHING about firearms, only sharb or threatning objects'



    I would like for SV, or Lonnie Wilson to reply to this. If this becomes an issue, do either of you have a lawyer that would be willing to deal with this matter?




    EDIT



    I also asked .. what the gray area was for a person that was Concealing. if this person were to have an exposed holster, or barrel . would he or she be subject to warranting alarm. He said very cleary, NO. as it is still concealed.



  2. #2
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    Oh, I alsoneed to add that, it is illegal in every city, within city limits!

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    Hope you got the names and identifying info of the LEO that you encountered.





    gf

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    First thing, calm down. I understand why you get hot under the collar, I have a very short temper as well, but you need to conduct yourself like a professional in everything related to firearms.

    Second, you need to not let people rope you into arguments. I would be really careful about arguing if you can't cite the law from memory as well. When they say this, you should be able to say it's RCW blah blah blah that pre-empts anything lower than the state, and RCW blah blah blah says that it's only illegal if it warrants alarm for the safety of others, and it has been well upheld with case law that merely carrying it in a peaceable fashion does not warrant alarm for the safety of others, etc.

    Third, and perhaps most important, when you call your credit card company because you've got a problem, and they tell you no, do you argue? Or do you write a letter to corporate, where you can be much more levelheaded and cool, and re-read what you write before you send it?

    But seriously, calm down. I understand why you're upset but you can't fix it by being mad. Just fix it by being methodical and relentless while polite and professional.

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    I didnt, I was so pissed off the one, I could identify in a heart beat.. and unles mr mustache shaves his off, I can do the same with him.



    I was just completely pissed off, and didnt take the time to do so, My apoligies.

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    Why can they ban guns in Sheriff's offices? Are they not preempted?

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    thewise1 wrote:
    First thing, calm down. I understand why you get hot under the collar, I have a very short temper as well, but you need to conduct yourself like a professional in everything related to firearms.

    Second, you need to not let people rope you into arguments. I would be really careful about arguing if you can't cite the law from memory as well. When they say this, you should be able to say it's RCW blah blah blah that pre-empts anything lower than the state, and RCW blah blah blah says that it's only illegal if it warrants alarm for the safety of others, and it has been well upheld with case law that merely carrying it in a peaceable fashion does not warrant alarm for the safety of others, etc.

    Third, and perhaps most important, when you call your credit card company because you've got a problem, and they tell you no, do you argue? Or do you write a letter to corporate, where you can be much more levelheaded and cool, and re-read what you write before you send it?

    But seriously, calm down. I understand why you're upset but you can't fix it by being mad. Just fix it by being methodical and relentless while polite and professional.
    The entire time i was there, I was polite, and I never once raised tone. Or continued the argument, It was a complete shark attack fromt he two men i was talking to.

    I will be writing a letter, and I did recite the RCW code as followed "the rcw that states 'Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistant with or more restrictive than, or that excede the requirements of theate law will not be enacted and are preempted and repealed.'

    He said I was again, wrong and that it was illegal, thats when i shook their hands and left.

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    One minor correction: it's possible that only court facilities that are required to provide storage, depending on how you read RCW 9.41.300. At least to me, it certianly sounds like the 2nd paragraph of (1)(b) only applies to (1)(b) itself.

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    ya pretty bad in all it even states in 9.41.300 that they MUST have a lockbox or someone to hold the weapon for you...... i mean come on they have to know this

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    phil teters wrote
    The entire time i was there, I was polite, and I never once raised tone. Or continued the argument, It was a complete shark attack fromt he two men i was talking to.

    I will be writing a letter, and I did recite the RCW code as followed "the rcw that states 'Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistant with or more restrictive than, or that excede the requirements of theate law will not be enacted and are preempted and repealed.'

    He said I was again, wrong and that it was illegal, thats when i shook their hands and left.
    Good deal man, glad to hear that. I get really uptight when people start confronting me like that so I can understand how tough it is.

    It definitely sounds like some letter writing is in order.

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    they said it wasnt their responsibility, as it is my firearm.

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    thewise1 wrote:
    phil teters wrote
    The entire time i was there, I was polite, and I never once raised tone. Or continued the argument, It was a complete shark attack fromt he two men i was talking to.

    I will be writing a letter, and I did recite the RCW code as followed "the rcw that states 'Local laws and ordinances that are inconsistant with or more restrictive than, or that excede the requirements of theate law will not be enacted and are preempted and repealed.'

    He said I was again, wrong and that it was illegal, thats when i shook their hands and left.
    Good deal man, glad to hear that. I get really uptight when people start confronting me like that so I can understand how tough it is.

    It definitely sounds like some letter writing is in order.
    The only problem is,Who do i write the letter to, the man i spoke with was the Higher up, and seemed to think he was 100% right.



    heres the best part, in centralia today, i OCd to starbucks, and a centralia cop OPENED THE DOOR FOR ME, and i gaurantee he saw my beretta, and didnt say a word.. just then.. one of the 'undercover cops' came in. and saw it aswell as i was standing in line. We talked, and not a word about my pistol, or the law.

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    phil teters wrote:
    they said it wasnt their responsibility, as it is my firearm.
    ya thats wrong it doesnt say anywhere that it depends whos firearm it is it only says:

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon OWNER for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.

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    Izzle wrote:
    phil teters wrote:
    they said it wasnt their responsibility, as it is my firearm.
    ya thats wrong it doesnt say anywhere that it depends whos firearm it is it only says:

    In addition, the local legislative authority shall provide either a stationary locked box sufficient in size for pistols and key to a weapon OWNER for weapon storage, or shall designate an official to receive weapons for safekeeping, during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building. The locked box or designated official shall be located within the same building used in connection with court proceedings. The local legislative authority shall be liable for any negligence causing damage to or loss of a weapon either placed in a locked box or left with an official during the owner's visit to restricted areas of the building.
    Correct, I know of people who have checked their sidearms with THURSTON co,at the court house, with not a single problem

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    phil teters wrote:
    ILLEGAL!!!!!!

    HOLY SHITIM SO PISSED

    I just got home from the lewis co. sheriff's office,I went in, and asked if there was somewhere i could check a firearm. the security officer told me there was not, and that i would have to go secure it elsewhere, in my vehicle. I asked him why there were not lock boxes. He said that state law doesnt require one.

    I replyed with, yes it does. and that i wanted to talk to an on duty deputy ,now.

    he said. go secure the pistol, and you can. I go back out side. and secure it. Walk through the detector, and my holster goes off, I still pass through.



    bear in mind, im already HOT from that encounter.. Now i wait about 3 minutes for an on duty deputy, i think. to come down and tell me that OC is illegal ,because it causes alarm. Then he said he recognized me, and i agreed. and just then, someone out of uniform with a huge mustache walks up, and asks me whats going on. I explain to him that I was just inquiring about a training bulletin on this very same matter.

    the deputy takes his binder and lifts up my shirt to reveal my serpa. and asks me where the firearm is.. I say, it's secured in my car ,right now.

    The other guy, out of uniform ask me if it's loaded.. I say, Yes. But not chambered.

    He then proceeds to tell me that it is illegal in washington state to leave a firearm in a car, While it is loaded, of any kind. (bullits in mag) or in chamber. and that i could be thrown in jail for it.

    The deputy stands there, while the other guy grills me about why i even need to carry a firearm, but then he tells me to follow him back to his office, because he wants to go further into the matter. I tried to just offer him an OCDO card. and he refused. I follow him back to his office, and had a seat. He then asks me If im military, i say Yes, and offer my MIL.ID. he sais that he was 'CID' for umpteen years and that if im in the service, that im not allowed to carry, and that i could baysically be thrown in the brig. I tell him that im national guard.. and that it's a little different for me. and that even the LT has cleared it. Just to make matters better for his soldiers. as it keeps us safer when we arent on duty.

    I then bring up Open carry, just to make it clear. he said that city ordinances prohibit ANYONE from openly displaying, or carrying of a firearm as it warrants alarm. I tell him that people have phobias, and that you cant go locking up clowns because tsome peopel are afraid of them. He tells me again, that it is illegal. he then asks me if I am a hunter, I say No. and he said that if it's out of city limits, it is more or less permitted. and that people display them (guns) in racks all the time. I make the point of (ISNT THAT THE SAME!!!) he says No, because they have business carrying a firearm. and in his opinion only people that consist of Law enforcemtn, or goverment are allowed to carry, or even posess a firearm, especially if it's open.



    I tell him that olympia has issued a training bulliten saying that it is LEGAL to carry openly, AND Concealed, AND LOADED. he tells me that they are in the wrong. I wrapped the convorsation up. and walked out. I'm under the impression that we will encounter the department this sunday, and that it will quickly go sour.

    So this is your warning.

    As he clearly stated that

    WASHINGTON IS NOT AN OPEN CARRY STATE

    and that Concealed carry is ,as a matter of fact ILLEGAL in other states.



    On my way out. the security officer that was a dick to me, said..'SEE THERES A SIGN RIGHT THERE I read it, and it says NOTHING about firearms, only sharb or threatning objects'



    I would like for SV, or Lonnie Wilson to reply to this. If this becomes an issue, do either of you have a lawyer that would be willing to deal with this matter?
    WOW...Looks to me that you guys will be having a Hay Day with Wrongful Arrest suits and wrongful seizure suits if they continue their Gestapo Methods.

    I'm reading the OP over and over and over again to make sure I read what I read:shock:

    TJ



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    WOW...Looks to me that you guys will be having a Hay Day with Wrongful Arrest suits and wrongful seizure suits if they continue their Gestapo Methods.

    I'm reading the OP over and over and over again to make sure I read what I read:shock:

    TJ

    I however did NOT make mention of this sundays meet .to oc.

    As i didnt want to be grilled about that aswell.

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    From the beginning of my military career I was taught to always carry a note pad and paper. It has come in handy on numerous occasions. When dealing with LEO, and they're telling me something I don't agree with, I calmly ask for their name, badge number and identification number (They have both). This usually is an indicator to the LEO that I'm not your average "perp" type. They become one of two things, either very cooperative and more "professional" or "combative" and "evasive". In the latter, if they refuse to give me the information, I write down as much detail as possible. Any info you get will come in handy for the follow-up letter to their superiors at a later time. Remember to remain calm (I often find it challenging to bite my tongue, but manage to do so), cooperate with the LEO, and don't say too much. By losing your cool in front of the LEO, it gives them "ammo" for use later against citizens having firearms. Imagine the next media opportunity "I had this guy come in the other day and he didn't realize that firearms were off limits in our building. He was told to secure the firearm in his vehicle. When questioned about the status of his firearm, he stated that his firearm was loaded which is in direct violation of the law. This is one of many reasons why citizens are irresponsible and should not have firearms." This is why we as pro 2A people need to be on our best behavior at all times. We need to know the law better than the average LEO, and not get caught breaking any laws.





    gf

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    ya no kidding also i believe as long as you have a CPL you can keep a loaded gun in the car even if you are not with it.

    RCW 9.41.050:
    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

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    Izzle wrote:
    ya no kidding also i believe as long as you have a CPL you can keep a loaded gun in the car even if you are not with it
    The same down here in Utah



    TJ

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    Glock Fan wrote:
    From the beginning of my military career I was taught to always carry a note pad and paper. It has come in handy on numerous occasions. When dealing with LEO, and they're telling me something I don't agree with, I calmly ask for their name, badge number and identification number (They have both). This usually is an indicator to the LEO that I'm not your average "perp" type. They become one of two things, either very cooperative and more "professional" or "combative" and "evasive". In the latter, if they refuse to give me the information, I write down as much detail as possible. Any info you get will come in handy for the follow-up letter to their superiors at a later time. Remember to remain calm (I often find it challenging to bite my tongue, but manage to do so), cooperate with the LEO, and don't say too much. By losing your cool in front of the LEO, it gives them "ammo" for use later against citizens having firearms. Imagine the next media opportunity "I had this guy come in the other day and he didn't realize that firearms were off limits in our building. He was told to secure the firearm in his vehicle. When questioned about the status of his firearm, he stated that his firearm was loaded which is in direct violation of the law. This is one of many reasons why citizens are irresponsible and should not have firearms." This is why we as pro 2A people need to be on our best behavior at all times. We need to know the law better than the average LEO, and not get caught breaking any laws.





    gf
    According to the guy i talked to. I hadnt broken any laws 'YET' unless i had already been OC'ing..

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    I think I'm picking up a voice recorder this weekend before the Sunday meetup.......it sounds like we might need it...........

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    almost gauranteed, we will.



    And as long as we all remain compliant, and respectful, that little thing should pick up EVERY word from what ever LEO's show up.

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    Ok, to me this sounds like a bad incident waiting to happen. Phil, did you actually get the information on who these officers are?

    I'm sending them an email as we speak, though again it's the end of the week. The problem is that the way these guys are chest thumping they WILL arrest people for open carry in Washington inside of Centralia. I sound like a whimp, but it may be best to hold off until we hit these guys with the actual training advisory. It sounds like they believe that they're under the old case and carry law. You see, Lewis County exempted themselves from Case and Carry, but Centralia probably did not. These guys are 11 years out of date on their legal knowledge and that's pretty dangerous. In fact, I'd say that they're at least 25 years out of date on their knowledge on loaded guns in cars.

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Ok, to me this sounds like a bad incident waiting to happen.* Phil, did you actually get the information on who these officers are?

    I'm sending them an email as we speak, though again it's the end of the week.* The problem is that the way these guys are chest thumping they WILL arrest people for open carry in Washington inside of Centralia.* I sound like a whimp, but it may be best to hold off until we hit these guys with the actual training advisory.

    I need a new house Lonnie, maybe a trip to Centralia is a good idea?

    Evangelical lessons are provided upon request. Anyone wishing to meet Jesus can just kick in my door.

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    Lonnie Wilson wrote:
    Ok, to me this sounds like a bad incident waiting to happen. Phil, did you actually get the information on who these officers are?

    I'm sending them an email as we speak, though again it's the end of the week. The problem is that the way these guys are chest thumping they WILL arrest people for open carry in Washington inside of Centralia. I sound like a whimp, but it may be best to hold off until we hit these guys with the actual training advisory. It sounds like they believe that they're under the old case and carry law. You see, Lewis County exempted themselves from Case and Carry, but Centralia probably did not. These guys are 11 years out of date on their legal knowledge and that's pretty dangerous. In fact, I'd say that they're at least 25 years out of date on their knowledge on loaded guns in cars.
    Lonnie, I didnt get names, as i was just in a hurry to get the hell out of dodge, before they arrested me.

    I agree it may be best to hold off. so as a last minute thing, i will propose a meet in olympia, instead.. this sunday. it makes it easier for the people wh are coming from tacoma,seattle to get there anyways.

    I do however, understand that they are out of date, but i don't think emailing them, or even going back there will help. with the way these guy's handeled themselves they seem to be too set in their own ways. Nothing we say is going to make a difference..not on our behalfs anyways.



    I only went there to see if there was ever a training bulliten to date, about OCing.. just as a little bit of re-con for what were up against this weekend, I did not however expect to be confronted the way i was, with the additude level i got,as well.



    I understand that there are some places off limits to OC. but a city, or town in washington state is not one of them. I for one am completely done, If they want to be pricks about it.. let them be..they always win, anyways.



    and in this case it's good guys VS. Good guys.. but they wear the badge. they in the end have the most amount of power, they don't seem to care about our rights.

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