Handgun Training Questions.

imported post

Hey everybody.

Tomorrow is finally the day that I go for my handgun course here in Montreal, Quebec or as it is called here, Restricted Weapons Licence but some things popped out at me that I don't understand in the Study Guide which I need answered.

It tells me to PROVE my weapon safe which I totally understand.

Point my firearm in the safest direction available.

Remove all cartridges.

Observe the chamber.

Verify the feeding path.

Examine the bore.

I can understand PROV but if we are supposed to always see the gun as loaded even if it is not then why should we also examine the bore??

I have heard a horror story about a guy on a range observing another person on the range examining the bore and it seemed that he had a loaded weapon.

I am thinking back to the mistake that Lee Paige did which is rack the slide first to remove the bullet first and then he was supposed to remove the magazine but not sure if he did or not.

But anyway my point is that if a person decides to rack the slide to remove the bullet and then remove the clip then they have just re-chambered another round and if they then examine the bore then there could be a possible fatality in the making if the person doesn't take a lot of care and follow the PROVE example step by step but instead jumps from one point to another.

Thanks in advance and as I continue to study this guide other questions might come up.

Btw as a side not and slightly off-topic:

To get a restricted weapons licence here in Canada you have to take both the un-restricted weapons course which is generally hunting rifles and such and then take the restricted weapons course for a handgun.

So right now I gotto pay $74 tomorrow for the handgun course, next month $66 for the rifle course which I will probably never use as I am not into hunting and then to apply for my licence I have to pay $80 to the Canadian Government.

You guys in the US definetly have it good.

imported post

I don't know if they have a standard procedure they want you to use but here's what I teach at a well-respected training facility in the states.

Present handgun from holster to the 'ready.'
Chamber check (just to verify if there is or isn't anything in the chamber)
Magazine check AND remove magazine. Put magazine away.
Eject cartridge that was in the chamber. Put it away.
Finish with another chamber check and magazine check... visually and physically (with fingers) verifying that firearm is unloaded.
At this point you might also want to lock the slide open so that they can see down into the chamber.

imported post

In Nevada. The course is $100 - $120
and the permit is close to $105...

imported post

IdahoCorsair wrote:

I don't know if they have a standard procedure they want you to use but here's what I teach at a well-respected training facility in the states.

Present handgun from holster to the 'ready.'
Chamber check (just to verify if there is or isn't anything in the chamber)
Magazine check AND remove magazine. Put magazine away.
Eject cartridge that was in the chamber. Put it away.
Finish with another chamber check and magazine check... visually and physically (with fingers) verifying that firearm is unloaded.
At this point you might also want to lock the slide open so that they can see down into the chamber.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info Corsair but what I am trying to understand is the thought pattern of why we should look straight into the bore even though we are supposed to act and treat the weapon as it is always loaded even when it is not.

It feels to me that treating the gun as loaded at all times and looking straight into the bore is in my view an oxymoron.

If it is always loaded then you would normally not put the muzzle of a loaded weapon against your face unless you are crazy, careless or suicidal.

This study guide from the Canadian Government is starting to really scare me when it uses comments like that.

imported post

A 'gun' might be always considered loaded but a gun not in battery is arguably not a gun.

imported post

Bravo_Sierra wrote:

In Nevada. The course is $100 - $120
and the permit is close to $105...

Click to expand...

Is this for concealed carry or just to own a firearm??

Not sure how the Nevada system works unfortunately.

Because here it is just for owning a firearm as you are not allowed to carry a gun unless you are a law enforcement officer or an armed security guard working in an armored car.

So to take it to the range you have to have it unloaded and put in a hard case and then that case also has to have a lock too and at home you are not allowed to have the weapon and any cartridges in the same area so if I have a locked handgun in one closet then I have to have the cartridges in another area or preferably to my knowledge another room.

Oh and if I use my legally licenced handgun to protect myself against home invaders and I am not talking about police using a no-knock warrant and one of them attacks me and I shoot and kill that person then I can be charged and found guilty of murder.

Gotto love our system I swear.

imported post

Doug Huffman wrote:

A 'gun' might be always considered loaded but a gun not in battery is arguably not a gun.

Click to expand...

Then it is more of a paper weight or an expensive brick or a solid billy club.

Doug could you expand more on your comment so I can understand it better or did I hit my head on the nail?? lol

imported post

Sleepless wrote:

Bravo_Sierra wrote:

In Nevada. The course is $100 - $120
and the permit is close to $105...

Click to expand...

Is this for concealed carry or just to own a firearm??

Not sure how the Nevada system works unfortunately.

Because here it is just for owning a firearm as you are not allowed to carry a gun unless you are a law enforcement officer or an armed security guard working in an armored car.

So to take it to the range you have to have it unloaded and put in a hard case and then that case also has to have a lock too and at home you are not allowed to have the weapon and any cartridges in the same area so if I have a locked handgun in one closet then I have to have the cartridges in another area or preferably to my knowledge another room.

Oh and if I use my legally licenced handgun to protect myself against home invaders and I am not talking about police using a no-knock warrant and one of them attacks me and I shoot and kill that person then I can be charged and found guilty of murder.

Gotto love our system I swear.

Click to expand...

Here in NV, those fees he listed are for the concealed carry permit. To get a firearmfrom a private sale all you need is the cash. To get a firearm from a dealer you need to pay about $15 for an instant background check and fill out an ATF form.

To carry your firearm unconcealed, you also don't need anything. The concealed carry permit is only needed for concealing a firearm.

imported post

If it says look into the bore, then if you want your license, I guess you have to. When it comes to government, it rarely does any good to ask "why?" It's government... they do stupid things every day. If you're going to look down the bore, be sure it's empty, and have your finger off the trigger. You'll be fine.

imported post

In my opinion, it's like any, maybe all, such training courses no matter what they are. They are looking to see how well you can follow instructions and be able to "By the numbers, present your weapon". The same as I did as a training Sgt. in the Army.

my .02 worth.

imported post

why not look into the bore from the breech? this makes the most sense.


My personal rule is that unless i'm working on the gun, I never look down the bore from the muzzle.

imported post

Sleepless wrote:

Hey everybody.

Tomorrow is finally the day that I go for my handgun course here in Montreal, Quebec or as it is called here, Restricted Weapons Licence but some things popped out at me that I don't understand in the Study Guide which I need answered.

It tells me to PROVE my weapon safe which I totally understand.

Point my firearm in the safest direction available.

Remove all cartridges.

Observe the chamber.

Verify the feeding path.

Examine the bore.

I can understand PROV but if we are supposed to always see the gun as loaded even if it is not then why should we also examine the bore??

I have heard a horror story about a guy on a range observing another person on the range examining the bore and it seemed that he had a loaded weapon.

I am thinking back to the mistake that Lee Paige did which is rack the slide first to remove the bullet first and then he was supposed to remove the magazine but not sure if he did or not.

But anyway my point is that if a person decides to rack the slide to remove the bullet and then remove the clip then they have just re-chambered another round and if they then examine the bore then there could be a possible fatality in the making if the person doesn't take a lot of care and follow the PROVE example step by step but instead jumps from one point to another.

Thanks in advance and as I continue to study this guide other questions might come up.

Btw as a side not and slightly off-topic:

To get a restricted weapons licence here in Canada you have to take both the un-restricted weapons course which is generally hunting rifles and such and then take the restricted weapons course for a handgun.

So right now I gotto pay $74 tomorrow for the handgun course, next month $66 for the rifle course which I will probably never use as I am not into hunting and then to apply for my licence I have to pay $80 to the Canadian Government.

You guys in the US definetly have it good.

Click to expand...

If they want you to look down the bore, field strip the freakin' thing, take the barrell out and look down it that way. That'll piss 'em off.


Any time I handle a firearm and intend to give it to another person, or whenever I receive a firearm, or pick an unattended firearm up, I take the following actions to make it 'safe.'


1st, Observe

If the firearm has a hammer or any familiar indicator, is it cocked? Is there any indication that this firearm is dangerous beyond a typical level? Does the firearm look anything other than you'd expect? Is it damaged at all?


2nd, Reception

I use my whole hand and all fingers and wrap them around the grip, leaving no finger on the trigger or even along the slide or frame. If the firearm has 1911-style grip safety, I will cup my hand under the grip and trigger guard, ensuring that the safety is not tripped. I will ensure that none of my actions disengage any other safety the weapon many have.



3rd, Make Safe

I will then remove the magazine from the weapon and discern whether the magazine contains ammunition or not. I will NOT place a loaded magazine in a location where it is not directly in my control. I will NOT hand it to another person whom I do not trust with my life.

I will then pull back the slide (and lock it into place) to eject any round that may be chambered and look into the breach to ensure that the weapon is indeed unloaded.


4th, Review

I will quickly recap the process and only then will I treat the weapon as 'safe' and hand it to another person or become at ease with it, myself.

I will repeat this process even if another person conducted it themselves, before handing the weapon to me.

The weapon is still not to be considerd safe, but not overtly dangerous, either.

imported post

Thanks everybody who wrote in the thread.

I will give you a small update of how everything went.

I came to the course at 7:40 AM and I left at 7:20 PM.

I learnt quite a bit from the course and it seems that we have the same magazine capacity restriction as California so I guess I won't be buying the Springfield XD-M because it has a 16 cartridge magazine.

But I am getting off topic, the course was easy as hell, I didn't need to clear any weapon or anything, maybe because he saw how much knowledge I had on the subject or maybe it wasn't part of the course but he did ask me to show his various kinds of bullets, shotgun shells and supposed hollowpoints which were regular lead round nose bullets with a tiny hole drilled through it which confused the hell out of me before the light came on.

Because I decided to challenge the rifle course test so I wouldn't have to do another course I did both handgun and rifle test at the same time.

The funniest thing is that when he showed us the semi-automatics he showed us one and I immediately identified it as a Beretta 92FS.

It felt perfect in my hand but I have to try various guns to see which one fits my hand the best and also which I like shooting the most.

But anyway to make it short, I asked him how I did on the rifle test and he told me that I passed and when I asked him about the handgun he said I passed that too but I will wait to believe it until I get the letter from the government in a month stating that I passed and then I have to apply for the licence and after that I gotto wait 45 days before they will send me the card and after that I will be able to get a membership at the gun club which I believe is around $200-$250 for a single annualmembership.

But anyway, thanks for all your help.

Oh, on a sidenote I just wanted to let you guys know that you are very lucky in the US lol

If we get a handgun we have to have a lock on the gun and the case we have to transport it with also has to have at least one or two locks, the case my teacher had was a Brinks case and it had 2 padlocks on it so everything has to be ultra-safe but we also need to register with the government that we have a gun in our house.

But the most screwed up ifthat isn't screwed up already is that if we want to take a gun to the range we have to bring the guns registration card and the Authorization to Transport a Weapon, if we need to take the gun to a gunsmith then we need another copy of Authorization to Transport a Weapon so if you want to bring your gun to a friends house to show it to him and he lives a few blocks away then you first have to contact the chief firearms officer which in my case is the Quebec Provincial Police and either have them send me an application for Authorization to Transport a Weapon or I can pick it up at the Provincial Police Headquarters and then I have to either mail it in or give it in and finally I have to wait until they send it to me in the mail and only then can you go to your friends house to show it to him.

And you guys thought you had a lot of red tape huh?? :cuss::banghead: